To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

Completely agree op.

But another one who doesn’t agree with the diversity. Ds school has many pupils form abroad particularly China and South Korea. Also many British mixed backgrounds not just Asian (actually not many Asians) but a number from African and Caribbean backgrounds. But yes most parents are professionals

It’s more diverse than the top state school in the area

I think it depends where you are living

It’s not diverse because everyone there is RICH!!!

I had more in common with international work colleagues at my city job in my twenties who were from Iran / India / Nigeria as we were all tertiary educated lawyers than I had in common with my school peers who were same ethnic group as me but (sorry) were a different class.

Sure Caitlin555 you are right.

i wonder how your kids are doing in a pandemic. Not getting in to a dog fight here, our (state school) is fab and feel sorry for all you poor in a cultural sense paying for so called 'public schools'

I

Greengreengrass

And my DD having had a choice and scholarships said she wouldn't touch public schools with a barge pole. Yes, so i guess it is me that is prejudiced on that front...

Why did she sit scholarships for private schools if you and she are so anti private education?

God you lot. Get real.

@greengreengrass14

Sure Caitlin555 you are right.

i wonder how your kids are doing in a pandemic. Not getting in to a dog fight here, our (state school) is fab and feel sorry for all you poor in a cultural sense paying for so called 'public schools'

I

I don’t have kids at public school

The school is ruthless in dropping the girls whom they believe won’t get the grades in secondary out- apparently they start indicating to the parents from Grade 5

Yes, root out the thicko’s and that makes a school great

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

The school is ruthless in dropping the girls whom they believe won’t get the grades in secondary out- apparently they start indicating to the parents from Grade 5

Yes, root out the thicko’s and that makes a school great

What pressure to put on children at a young age

@Nextity

Depends what you mean by better.

Some teachers are amazing at simplifying concepts for the less academically able. Some have amazing classroom management. Some are great at stretching the brightest kids. I like to think that teachers end up gravitating towards schools that suit them.

An Ex of mine taught in both very selective private schools and super rough comps. Main difference was all maths and physics, chemistry teachers actually had degrees in the subject from Russell Group unis in the private school. Definitely not the case in a lot of state schools. In the very roughest schools classroom management, i.e. how to dodge the punch and restrain, was the key skill.

I teach in a PRU. I have a PhD and have taught A level and IB (and am an A level examiner). Being at the top of your teaching game (and by teaching I mean getting children to learn, not dodging punches and restraining ) is more important, in a PRU than when teaching motivated kids a subject you know really well. That's actually pretty easy.

The pressure on those kids. I wonder if they have good mental health and pastoral care programmes.

@rhowton What a vile, ableist thing to say, in addition to being extremely incorrect. Do you really think that no private school has children with SEN? Delusional.

Yes there may be less financially deprived pupils at private schools, but it’s utter nonsense to say the children don not have behavioural issues or sen. Sending your child to be educated from China to a boarding school in a England & only seeing them during the Christmas and summer holidays brings its own issues. Lots of private schools are full of children with sen as parents realise the help isn’t there in the state schools. Children with pushy parents are exhausted at all they have to do in and out of school. I once taught a boy who wasn’t allowed his teddy at night because he wouldn’t do his times tables on the way to school -he was 5. It’s not all a bed of roses and private school teachers have to deal with difficult issues.

In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

Yes your do.

You don't, but you don't in state schools in England either.

@SomethingM1ss1ng

Mine has been in a private school from reception - the county we are in has good schools so I was reluctant to fork out the fees but husband was clear, our experience/reasons:

Class size small - 20 total in daughters class and total school circa 350 girls
Loads of land to be active etc
Teachers/principal have a way of conducting themselves and expect the girls to be the same
The older girls practically become role model
Girls quickly go from ‘babies’ in reception to being matured in how they carry themselves.
The parent group in this school mostly are nice but there is a lot of competition
My daughter (year 2) practices maths ever weekday 6:45am -7:45am and then English 7pm-8pm before bed
Parents need to put a lot in- lots of homework
All the primary school teachers are qualified and secondary teachers mostly are oxbridge

What we get as parents:
A voice - since we essentially pay for it..
During the lockdown the google classes and the support pastoral etc was very good
We have been notified that the google classroom will run parallel to the classes to make sure that the girls who are isolating waiting for tests don’t miss out.

The school is ruthless in dropping the girls whom they believe won’t get the grades in secondary out- apparently they start indicating to the parents from Grade 5

It is still a huge financial commitment- one which I do periodically question.

Sounds like my experience of a mixed rural state primary, except the weeding out which is vile and would never happen in state schools thankfully

I haven’t read the full thread. however i just wanted to say, I have worked in a private and a state school (primary/prep) and some of the teaching is better simply because it’s taught by specialists which isn’t the norm in state primaries. Eg my class are taught drama, music, PE, science, French, Spanish, computing all by specialist teachers who only teach that subject. In a state they’d be taught that by their class teacher. I can firmly state that my teaching of French (a language I don’t even speak) is worse than the French specialist at my school. Likewise computing and sport (which I’m ok at - but the sports teachers are excellent).

Maths and English, topic, art etc are no different I’d say. (Different private schools will have differing levels of specialists - at mine these are taught by form tutors.)

We have two local-ish private schools, both have extremely difficult entrance exams and children with learning difficulties don't get in. It's very simple. Some children with say a physical disability might get in but they need to excel at the entrance exam, just like everyone else. Other children with, for example hearing difficulties may get in but again, it's only if they excel at the entrance exam. A child with general learning difficulties don't stand a chance.

Some balanced comments here but these private school threads are inevitably overrun by Marxist class warriors with an axe to grind rather about the evils of private education.

@modgepodge

I haven’t read the full thread. however i just wanted to say, I have worked in a private and a state school (primary/prep) and some of the teaching is better simply because it’s taught by specialists which isn’t the norm in state primaries. Eg my class are taught drama, music, PE, science, French, Spanish, computing all by specialist teachers who only teach that subject. In a state they’d be taught that by their class teacher. I can firmly state that my teaching of French (a language I don’t even speak) is worse than the French specialist at my school. Likewise computing and sport (which I’m ok at - but the sports teachers are excellent).

Maths and English, topic, art etc are no different I’d say. (Different private schools will have differing levels of specialists - at mine these are taught by form tutors.)

I can see that for primary level but at secondary you have specialist teachers in the state sector.

@MsTSwift

Absolutely spot on. You are buying a way out of mixing with chavs and any parent saying otherwise is lying through their teeth.

What funny is the earnest group insistent that their child’s private school is “more diverse” than the state option 😁. Pull the other one. Tbh I would respect them more if they were honest about it.

My dc private IS more diverse than the state option. Diversity comes in many shapes so it depends what type of diversity you are looking for. We were looking for ethnic diversity and the independent schools gave us that in bucket loads.

SST1234, and plenty of comments about the vile working class kids, let alone those with SEN, that parents who are sending their kids to private schools don't want their precious little ones to have to share a classroom with. It goes both ways.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

As opposed to those shit private school teachers who do fuck all every day and don't give a crap about making a difference?

What a load of pious garbage. You get good teachers and terrible teachers in private schools and good teachers and terrible teachers in state schools. Teaching in a state school doesn't miraculously make you the Mother Teresa of inner city Manchester.

No, but arguably you make more of a difference for a deprived child in a state school who without support wouldn’t achieve anything, than for an averagely intelligent child from an affluent family who would probably be supported anyway and do ok in life. That was my point.

Hmm
My DC are grown up but went to a highly regarded London cofe. The sort where parents get on their knees to save the fees. 100% in says. In top 3 of the league tables.

I am sorry to say the staff had poor grammar; and one taught that the y axis was horizontal and the x vertical. Please don't start me on incorrect spellings, screeching TA's, general disorganization and the persistent infusion of a left wing ethos.

That's why we switched to the independent sector. I'm sorry to have to say the teaching was better, the teachers' personal standards of education were better and yes the ethos and pastoral care were better. And no classes were not much smaller and there were still sets.

No comparison ime but at least the London day schools offer high standards and relatively low fees.

My DC's peers who went to the local London comps did not make Oxbridge. Even the ones who were cleverer than my DC.

The difference is heart breaking and becoming wider. However, my children are not political or social collateral and there for were provided with the best we could afford without them boarding.