Before you send your kids to public school ...

[pontypridd]

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

It’s not necessarily public schools imparting this privilege, but often Oxbridge and a few other key universities. Yes, that means an unrepresentative number from public schools, as they are over represented as Oxbridge et al graduates, but it would be better to try and ensure the brightest are represented at these universities rather than those who have had a privileged education.

I know the universities (and tutors who pick students) try very hard to pick students with potential. Uniq and other access initiatives are great, but it is difficult to compensate for the children who have £££££ spent on an amazing education and have well educated, supportive parents.

Ah the bullingdon club.

Our current cohort of political leaders- that picture!

The recent ish thing with a bloke burning a £50 I think it was in front of a homeless person.

Smashing stuff up and find whatever the fuck they liked.

They are the most privileged of the privileged. And what a total bunch of aresholes they were.

I love your post! And I completely agree! I have put my daughter into private education because I am appalled at how the current government is dealing with schooling. I am an ex teacher and all my family are teachers, so we discuss this a lot!! I Idid Originally want to hold out for our local state school as it is a really good one, but I loved the school I now send my daughter to so much on viewing it, it was a no brainier. It’s small and arty, and the headmaster knew all the pupils names and had an open door policy so they could come to speak to him at any point during the day. I’m basically saying that for every Eaton -type poncey school, there’s a really good private school who are educating normal kids whose parents just happen to live in an area where the state schools are oversubscribed and work really hard to send their kids to the school. It was a wake up for me because I was very against private schools before this, but now I’m so glad my daughter goes to this school that she enjoys it do much!

Is it April 1st?

LMAO
where i am, most private schools have ties to religion, STRONG ties
Shall i list religions faults, the faults of these schools due to religions dangerous influence?
The discrimination, sexism and classism that occurs, BREEDS in these schools?

I will take a public school over private ANY day of the week

. . . Ooh, how embarrassing.

Where are you Squeek?

Round here the state schools are pretty much all religious. Well all of them at primary. Secondary is a little better but not much.

I went to a selective secondary private school- not religious. Although they did have a separate assembly for a large group who wanted one.

What part of the UK are you in? I have a lot of religious state schools here, probably more than elsewhere in the country.

If you don't want religion you have limited state options.

@NiceGerbil

I think there is some confusion here over the difference between public/ private schools.

And I must admit I'm not 100% myself!

I went to private schools. That is paid for but they come in various types.

My primary was a Roman Catholic school (with nuns!) In London. If you paid you went. Large numbers of children of Irish and Italian descent who wanted a Catholic education for their children. Academic standards were not great or anything.

Secondary I went to a selective private school. If you passed the exams and got in and your parents could pay you could go. A reasonable mix of children who had parents who were doing well enough and saved up- some children who were super talented at eg music got bursaries etc. My classmates had parents who were teachers, nurses, that sort of thing. Plus some wealthier business types. I suspect that it's out of reach of those occupations now but it's all, if you get in and can pay then ok.

Public schools are different entirely. They have a whole different set of entry ages for a start. I think you go to prep school till 8 and then move on to senior. Prep schools are expensive obv. So already it's out of step with state and private schools. It's a different system..

My brother went to a public school on a scholarship. Most children boarded (another thing that seems to be the standard at public schools). My brother was a 'day boy'.

It was really really posh, massive and different even to me as a private school girl. Just a totally different ball game.

And here I get a bit guessy. I would imagine that if you were the child of a lord of something, you could go irrespective of academic achievement? Others may no more. To me though they're about social position and mixing with others in a similar social position in a money no object type place. Of course many get excellent results etc.

I mean my experience is limited but public and private schools are totally different.

From my point of view which I know will be unpopular.

The tax breaks given to these schools as charities (at least the private ones, I don't know if public are set up that way) are ridiculous.

There's no doubt that public schools serve the privileged to funnel their children through well trodden routes to various positions.

There was a lot of to and fro about grammar schools and whether they were a good idea. I can see the arguments against but having seen a documentary a few years back, removing the grammar school system, rather than bringing more equality, simply meant that there were very few people breaking through that class divide at all any more.

I would be supportive of a comprehensive system across the board and get rid of being able to buy an education. It's inequitable and creates a two (in our case 3) tier system.

Having all the children in state education would focus on improving standards there and mean a more level playing field.

I know that this is controversial and never going to happen! But just putting it out there.

I also think that it's not good to have so many religious schools. Again, another conversation.

Thank you , I think you’ve explained it so eloquently. I always thought it was me not understanding the public/private/state/ system. I went to a private RC school and my children do now. In no way was/is the school elitist . I had to pass an entrance. exam (as did my children). If you did not pass the exam , irrespective of siblings, parents, money you did not get a place . My school was not for the privileged. Yes there are fees but also lots of bursaries. It was (and still is) a very inclusive school . To GCSE level every child was encouraged to play a musical instrument, to be in the choir, to do art and design. But I digress . .. going back to the original post, public speaking does not a leader make. Johnson, moggs , Cummings, Gove : they are leaders because the public voted for them . I don’t think any of them would have survived in the real ‘private’ sector .

The private schools round me are interesting. And the state schools too.

I'm in North West London.

Within striking distance of me, primary. All religious entry criteria. Flavours of Christianity.

Secondary. RC. Jewish. C of E. All sought after. Good results.

Also. In striking distance of religious schools with state funding with ??? around them.

Also a religious sect that used to be in mainstream but now has own school.... Not sure WTF is going on with those kids.

The religious thing is s real worry TBH.

Who is checking on these kids?

The things my friends were taught at girls RC state secondary were pretty iffy. Great results but also max religion.

I'm RC myself by birth.

I think it's less of an issue elsewhere but around here many of the religious schools are properly religious. And the authorities tiptoe a bit.

And then we have the private religious schools where the kids are. No interaction with 'outsiders'. It bothers me.

Actually no need to say what. Rather than being mysterious.

Exclusive brethren used to be in mainstream education where I live.

Not now, in a ? School somewhere. I worry. They are extreme.

Also. The Jewish community in Stamford hill. Lots of reports about segregation sexes, only teaching religion etc.

Google the second if you like there's lots.

The first is more personal for reasons. They just went. So closed. I worry.
Anyway.

I don't like religion in schools. I know it's financially and socially pretty much impossible to change though.

You are talking about a tiny minority of elite men who decided to become politicians. In reality private schools, like many state schools, produce large amounts of wonderful humans who contribute to our society in positive ways. Remember also that a school is not responsible for everything - Boris, Jacob R-M, Gove, have a particular combination of home-life factors and other advantages that have made them who they are. It isn't just their schools.

@NiceGerbil

The private schools round me are interesting. And the state schools too.

I'm in North West London.

Within striking distance of me, primary. All religious entry criteria. Flavours of Christianity.

Secondary. RC. Jewish. C of E. All sought after. Good results.

Also. In striking distance of religious schools with state funding with ??? around them.

Also a religious sect that used to be in mainstream but now has own school.... Not sure WTF is going on with those kids.

The religious thing is s real worry TBH.

Who is checking on these kids?

The things my friends were taught at girls RC state secondary were pretty iffy. Great results but also max religion.

I'm RC myself by birth.

I think it's less of an issue elsewhere but around here many of the religious schools are properly religious. And the authorities tiptoe a bit.

And then we have the private religious schools where the kids are. No interaction with 'outsiders'. It bothers me.

I’m RC, what was iffy ?

Well I went to a private primary where they gave the cane and you had to eat in silence etc

But we're talking about state schools

I'm in my40s

Sex education = zero
Rhythm method only contraception taught
Essay 'imagine you are a baby about to be aborted. How do you feel?'

Are the ones I remember from my friends.

A private RC primary.

Obviously at a RC school abortion and contraception are not going to be much of a topic?!

That was a state funded school though.

The schools for the exclusive brethren, I dread to think.

They've just vanished from our town.

@HelloMissus

For every Boris there’s a lovely academic somewhere trying to find a cure for dementia or an award winning writer. School is just school.

This.

Can we not please lay some of the blame for the rise of Boris et al at the door of those who voted for him? In their droves? No way were these all the privately educated and wealthy. And people can't claim to have been hoodwinked - it was very obvious what kind of people Boris and R-M were before the election.

Alright comrade

Can we not please lay some of the blame for the rise of Boris et al at the door of those who voted for him? In their droves?

Or perhaps the lack of an opposition? I'm sure people were more vehement in keeping Steptoe out than passionate about voting Boris in.

Yes, I'm sure they were. And it was a horrible election to vote in for anyone near the centre (like me, who would always vote for a centre left Labour govt but couldn't vote for Corbyn). But it's still the case that a lot of people knew what Boris was but voted for him anyway. And people can't just shrug off responsibility for that.

I also used to think all private schools were stuffy Eaton-esque places but I’ve since discovered I was wrong and the vast majority are populated buy student’s whose parents just want the best for them when the local state school can’t offer that

I can understand this and I think you're right that many people who go private are doing it because they've felt let down by the state system - whether that's large classes, bullying, very restrictive curriculum, etc. I understand this on a personal level (though there's a big difference between a local private school and the elite public schools the OP mentioned), but I think the govt (not just this one, but successive govts, Labour and Tory) should have done/be doing more to improve state schools, not just the endless focus on league tables and exam results.

I'd say you're wrong re Eton and others being 'stuffy'. In a previous job I went on a couple of visits to Eton, also have friends/colleagues with kids at a few other public schools (Rugby, Harrow, Bedales, Stowe). Eton was astonishing to visit - a whole small town devoted to about 1300 kids. Amazing facilities (fully equipped theatre, recording studio, professional looking labs, etc) and very welcoming and friendly. The children I know who are at public school are lovely people. But they are being raised to believe their position in society (rather than their intelligence) entitles them to incredible privilege, and they also have little knowledge of normal life for most people - surely a pre-requisite for running the country.

You are talking about a tiny minority of elite men who decided to become politicians. In reality private schools, like many state schools, produce large amounts of wonderful humans who contribute to our society in positive ways.

Public schools seem to be doing a very good job for the parents who can afford them, but they are a driving force in inequality, not just in politics. It also matters for our society and economy that ex-public school students are over-represented in top universities and top jobs. It is very limiting in terms of skills, intelligence, knowledge and experience, if recruitment to law, arts, media, and many others is skewed towards a very limited group of highly priviledged people.

A pp mentioned diversity and suggested that having a racial/cultural mix makes a private school okay. What they won't have is a class and family income mix. Mixing with the minority of black people whose parents are wealthy doesn't give you any awareness of the diversity of life experience in the UK.

I agree with the posts saying that universities should be tackling the privilege. I'd like to see bans on university interviews as well as no mention of school on application forms - selection should be as blind as possible.

But it's still the case that a lot of people knew what Boris was but voted for him anyway. And people can't just shrug off responsibility for that..

Maybe those voters are happy with him and the job he's doing ?

I'd like to see bans on university interviews as well as no mention of school on application forms - selection should be as blind as possible

If the applications are blind how would they ensure a big majority of state school educated students?
What would the interview be replaced with? Maybe they could go back to the former system of an entrance exam.

Maybe those voters are happy with him and the job he's doing ?

It’s a brave person who sticks up for Boris or indeed any Tory politician on mumsnet!
Likewise Brexit.
Before the last election if one used mumsnet as an opinion poll one would’ve been very surprised by the result.

The children I know who are at public school are lovely people. But they are being raised to believe their position in society (rather than their intelligence) entitles them to incredible privilege, and they also have little knowledge of normal life for most people - surely a pre-requisite for running the country.

This ...

Jeremy Corbyn- Public school
Keir Starmer- " "
Tony Benn " "

You are being ridiculous.