Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Before you send your kids to public school ...

313 replies

pontypridd · 18/09/2020 16:52

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 19/09/2020 09:18

To think someone is seriously wealthy just because their child goes to private school is a complete fallacy.

Define "seriously wealthy".

There has not been a year in my living memory where normal incomes would come anywhere close to covering two sets of private school fees.

Yes there are significant issues with provisions for SEN, especially after a decade of austerity and CAHMS being shredded into useless word salads but please don't propagate this notion that anyone can go private if they just ditch the fancy cars and foreign holidays.

notdaddycool · 19/09/2020 09:25

Odd.

Balhammom · 19/09/2020 10:22

Many of the best doctors and scientists I've worked with are from public schools.

Does OP have a problem with them too?

BeachLane · 19/09/2020 10:43

I hear and agree with 80% of what you write BeachLane, but when the comprehensive schools my DS attended for several years didn't teach him anything beyond what he had already learned by the end of Y9 towards his GCSEs (he is severely dyslexic but not stupid) then the state system I know it's under pressure to deliver average is only going to deliver average... and more average is NOT what is needed

@XingMing I do sympathise with this. I've never been in a situation where I could have afforded private schooling (already forego foreign holidays, new cars, etc just to pay bills and avoid debt). But I understand why people would do anything to give their kids a better start in life, whether that's academically or because their child doesn't feel safe in a school with a bullying culture. I wouldn't criticise individual parents for making those decisions, but I think the state could do a lot more to level the playing field.

The state system is terribly underfunded, and that impacts on exam results, pastoral care, facilities and many other things. I am lucky to live in an area with good state schools, but among other things they still have buildings falling apart, lack of equipment, shortage of teachers and other staff, parents have to pay a lot for text books the schools can't afford. That seems criminal to me. Even if politicians don't feel a duty of care to give every child a chance, they should at least realise that these kids are the resources this country will need to thrive in the next few decades. So if people who might be brilliant scientists, lawyers, statisticians, artists or whatever just don't succeed because of lack of specialist teachers, bullying, books, etc - that is not only a personal failure for them, it's someone whose skills this country doesn't get to benefit from in the future. Meanwhile, there are people with very limited skills and intelligence running the country because they happened to have gone the right school and made the right contacts. That just seems ridiculously short sighted, incompetent and unfair.

And as others have said, there's a difference between the local private school that just has slightly better exam results, better pastoral care, etc and public schools for the children of the wealthy. Those top 20 or so schools are the ones we should worry about. Yes, their alumni are charming, polite, well-educated people, BUT they are hugely over-represented in top jobs and top universities and far more likely to go on to powerful positions in industry, arts, politics, media and many other fields. That is not because they are especially clever, creative, analytical, etc. It's because their parents are rich. I don't see how we can ever create a fair, just society that works for everyone if those in power are from a tiny elite of the wealthy. I'm not saying those people should be punished or disadvantaged, just given equality of opportunity with everyone else. But for that to happen we need state schools to be centres of excellence where anyone from any background can flourish and we also need laws to ensure that opportunities in future life are awarded based on skills, intelligence, hard work, rather than belonging to an elite network.

BeachLane · 19/09/2020 10:51

Many of the best doctors and scientists I've worked with are from public schools

That's great. If they are really the best then they would still thrive under a blind application system where their university and employers had no knowledge of their parents' class and income status. And we'd all have the added security of knowing that the people in those jobs are really the best this country could offer.

OhTheRoses · 19/09/2020 11:15

My DC are considerate, kind, socially aware, and very liberal/left in their outlook. More so than many of their primary friends who went into state schools. They are also incredibly well educated.

Fees at their peak were £40k pa from net income for London day schools. That was the extra that had to be found after all other living costs were accounted for.

London and education is v different from outside London imo.

Oliversmumsarmy · 19/09/2020 11:57

Yes there are significant issues with provisions for SEN, especially after a decade of austerity and CAHMS being shredded into useless word salads but please don't propagate this notion that anyone can go private if they just ditch the fancy cars and foreign holidays

We went private before the years of austerity and the education just wasn’t there.

As for CAHMS. In our area I think over the years they must have wasted 7 figures+ just on how appointments are allocated

I wouldn’t say we ditched the fancy cars as we never drove fancy cars in the first place. But we didn’t go on holiday for several years. Apart from one holiday which was paid for on Tesco vouchers by a thief who stole my handbag.
Whoever broke into my car started to use my Tesco club card and for years we got the vouchers from their spending.
They did a lot of spending.

We really didnt go out unless we had vouchers and the private schools they went to were very cheap compared to other private schools.

People pay for nursery fees of £1500 per for one child and no one bats an eyelid or thinks they must be seriously wealthy.

What is the difference of paying that in school fees.

QuestionMarkNow · 19/09/2020 12:56

@Fightthebear

Hmm . . . the op has a bit of a point.

Some of them imbue a kind of “king of the world” arrogance. We could do with less of that.

DH went to a public school though and is nothing like that.

Yes but that’s not ALL private schools far from. What the OP is objecting about is a very particular breed of private schools (which I agree do exist).

Telling people to all take their dcs from those schools is not realistic nor reflecting the reality of private schools

XingMing · 21/09/2020 21:12

@BeachLane, again I agree with most of what you say, but looking back to 2010 or thereabouts, the brightest children in DS's classes went to the shiny schools, Eton and Winchester mainly. Notwithstanding that we don't have titles (or enough money to pay the fees), it would not have made a difference. Top schools nowadays don't actually give a toss if you have a title: are you clever enough to survive here is the criterion. DS is still close friends with one person who did go to Eton and top universities afterwards, but he hasn't managed to pass the driving test yet while DS has had his license for more than four years. It all works out eventually.

WinchesForFinches · 21/09/2020 21:16

Well with the way that things re looking for next years exams already, I’m extremely glad I now pay for my kids educations! My husband and I were both let down really badly by state schools. Just so glad we have the choice now.

Amanduh · 21/09/2020 21:23

I’d rather my child ended up like Cummings than Charles Bronson.
That sounds completely stupid and irrelevant doesn’t it?
Well. Bronson went to a state school. Cummings went private.
What an absolutely stupid statement.

NiceGerbil · 21/09/2020 21:29

Of course private schooling gives you a head start- if it didn't people wouldn't pay for it (outside of reasons like religion).

And of course public school gives you that head start +++

It's a mechanism for those with privilege either inherited or through hard work or both, to pass some of that into their children.

Totally understandable for parents to do that obviously.

Is it egalitarian/ meritocratic? Of course not.

What if anything people want to do about it is a political question.

What sort of people get turned out is another question. In my industry we get a lot of young people who have done private school/ good university/ graduate job in the city. I do find that many of them don't seem to have much of a clue about things outside of their experience. Which is probably true for all young people TBF. But it can be a bit, dunno. They have no awareness of how lucky they are, a lot of them. Which is not their fault and they're all very nice but it doesn't lead to much diversity of thought IYSWIM.

I was once talking to a man I worked with outside the UK about D&I and saying well it's all white blokes isn't it. What other things. And he said class. It's so obvious to those from outside, but not to those inside. And he was right.

Luckily our industry still has a good amount of people who joined elsewhere in big companies and worked their way up- to balance things out! People without degrees or sometimes a levels (in their 40s, probably not so much more with the younger ones).

I have always found the working up people/ the ones who have done a few jobs etc to be a bit more easy to work with and clued up and that sort of thing.

Sorry, essay! It's an interesting topic.

Southwestten · 21/09/2020 21:31

What’s D&I?

NiceGerbil · 21/09/2020 21:36

Oh I should say the graduates were all very nice! And clever and hardworking. But they all had a similar outlook and experience which isn't a good thing in any industry really.

NiceGerbil · 21/09/2020 21:38

Diversity and inclusion.

Not to be confused with D&V Grin

The corporates are all over it at the moment but IME it's lip service and nice lanyards and little actual change. Well, by little I mean none Grin 40% + pay gap and no excuse as there's not really any 'back office' jobs.

keziahthecat · 21/09/2020 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Southwestten · 21/09/2020 22:35

People without degrees or sometimes a levels (in their 40s, probably not so much more with the younger ones)

I agree with you about that but according to my children so many jobs require a degree to get an interview (as you said, in your business it’s not so many younger ones who work their way up).
I begged my children not to go to university as neither appeared very interested in academic work but they gave that reason as why they wanted to go and I couldn’t really argue with that.
It’s a pity as in the past lots of successful people worked their way up the company.

SophieMF · 21/09/2020 23:21

I’m an ex teacher and I have to say I’m so happy I can send my daughter to a private school as the current government are completely ruining the education system and I feel this way she is getting the best schooling possible at the moment. I also used to think all private schools were stuffy Eaton-esque places but I’ve since discovered I was wrong and the vast majority are populated buy student’s whose parents just want the best for them when the local state school can’t offer that. I taught in the same comprehensive school that I went to. It was really rough, 32 pupils in a class, funding was so poor. When I was a pupil there I was bullied for being a ‘swot’ . When I was a teacher there I loved it because I really felt like I was making a difference, albeit small, to the kids lives. It was hard but rewarding. I This was probably about 15 years ago, and having seen the system from the inside I was hesitant to put my daughter into the state system. Mainly because I see how little influence teachers get when it comes to teaching their subjects properly. Nowadays the Arts subjects have been downgraded because they don’t think they are important (I was a drama teacher) the English syllabus is now more similar to how it was in Victorian times - it’s ridiculous! and I feel for the teachers, who are doing their best in classes that are massive, having to teach stuff that kids just aren’t interested in.
I just didn’t want that for my daughter. She’s only in primary at the moment. And although her school still has to follow the syllabus, they have a bit more freedom so can incorporate arts subjects and languages. as well as the academic subjects, which I love about the school.

NiceGerbil - I completely understand your point about private schools not traditionally being diversive, but we live in south London and the pupils and families at my daughters school come from a massive variety of cultures and backgrounds. But once again it’s not one of those very stuffy prestigious schools that have been around forever, like Eaton , which I think is probably due an update!

Sorry, this is a bit of a rant, but in truth, if you’d asked me 10 years ago if I would send my children to a private school I would have told you no wAy! That I thought private schools were a place to make your children social outcasts and only bread annoying toffs(/politicians) But I have re-educated myself, and now my daughter goes to the nicest school I’ve ever been to. The teachers are lovely and the classes are small. She’s so happy there, and I’m confident she will actually enjoy going to school, which is not an experience I had.

Am I worried about her being sheltered from real life? Sometimes- the school is a bit of a bubble, but then who wants their child to grow up too fast? Plus my husband and I are pretty open about stuff so I think she’ll learn what she needs to know about the real world from us.

NiceGerbil · 21/09/2020 23:27

Ooh I wonder what the deleted post said!

Yes I think the degree thing was changing when I left in the 90s. More and more people were doing degrees and many employers adjusted their entry criteria accordingly. Which meant more jobs had a degree required and so it spiralled. Now we have loads of jobs where you need a degree to get a foot in the door, that used to be done fine by a mix including school leavers, and a degree is £1000s, it all seems silly. Ironically many jobs were more difficult then as much less computerisation so in my type of role there was much more fairly involved maths etc.

The other problem with this is that uni is about £££ capitalist system and what happens to studying for love, joy, wonder. Which may not lead to big pay but enriches people's lives and supplies roles that enrich society.

We're going off message Grin

Of course in this as well the wealthy supported students have more choice if they want to do, I dunno, studying an obscure niche subject, rather than doing something that is an entrance to the corporate world.

NiceGerbil · 21/09/2020 23:32

Sophie I went to a private school and it was diverse (although 3 main groups and some definitely under represented)and back then it was accessible to not super wealthy parents. Teachers etc.

Kids from my school are across the arts and media etc. A lot of successes- privilege and confidence and a good education- but in many areas.

It's more the graduates we got in my very corporate industry.

My brother went to a public school so I have a bit of insight across the board.

I would never ever say parents should not do the best for their kids with what they have.

My thoughts are more, general I suppose.

MushMonster · 21/09/2020 23:32

I thought Boris and company had been educated in a private school?
I think they have very little to do with public schools.....

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 21/09/2020 23:35

@MushMonster

In the UK Public Schools are the most expensive (often boarding) private schools. The name is a historical reference to their charitable origins.

Government run schools are referred to as State Schools

Danni290 · 21/09/2020 23:38

What a pathetic post. Such a sweeping generalisation - are you jealous of those that have the opportunity to do so?

How would you feel if I made generalisations about people attending state schools?

Grow up OP

MushMonster · 21/09/2020 23:41

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude thanks for the explanation, because it is rather confusing indeed!

ThereIsNoSuchThingAsRoadTax · 21/09/2020 23:46

Lots of people on here don't seem to know the difference between a private school and a public school...