Before you send your kids to public school ...

[pontypridd]

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

I expect this has already been said by someone else, but the schools you are referring to instill a strong work ethic in their pupils. Many of them have a timetable that exceeds the average adult working week. The students are encouraged to be competitive and to engage with the arts, as well as working alongside pupils of other faiths and nationalities. Tolerance, hard work and appreciation of the arts are the foundations of a civilised society.

This is the most ridiculous thread I’ve ever read.

I choose to send my children to a private school because look at Myra Hindley! She went state all the way through and can you see what happened to her?

Myra Hindley was literally a product of the state education system. Thank goodness I’m able to send my girls private and avoid that.

Can you see now how ridiculous this thread is?

I know some lovely men who went to Eton etc. Admittedly none of them went into politics...
I don't think it's the necessarily the schools fault. Except maybe it does help even those with unfit personalities to succeed - but then again aren't a lot of CEOs etc. Psychopaths?

I would much rather an educated, well spoken person leading the country that someone who doesn't sound eloquent on the world stage and is likely to collapse the economy with socialist idealism.

Pot & kettle come to mind with your narrow-minded, sweeping generalisations. Inverted snobbery is just as toxic.

(Last post was addressed to OP)

Not everyone who went to public school is a knob, DH and I both went and are very normal. I did met some crackers during my time but I think that resulted from growing up wealthy, unlike DH and I.

I would much rather an educated, well spoken person leading the country that someone who doesn't sound eloquent on the world stage and is likely to collapse the economy with socialist idealism

I think we've already covered the Corbyn issue (& obvs great to see how well the economy's doing under the alternative), but is Boris 'well spoken'? Can someone mixing actual words with bumbling meaningless noises be described as 'eloquent on the world stage'? And how important is eloquence weighed against qualities like honesty, integrity, and a complex understanding of the issues being dealt with? If anyone has seen Boris's recent PMQ performances, eloquent and well-spoken aren't the first words that come to mind

Misterectomy mentions public schools teaching a strong work ethic, but again that is something Boris is frequently criticised for lacking when he's off on holiday, not working weekends, appearing to have little understanding of his brief.

As has been said many times, some public school educated people are lovely, honest and highly intelligent people. Some aren't. The same can be said for other schools. But even the most brilliant state school students rarely get into powerful positions, so we don't really need to worry about what would happen if an incompetent one ended up running the country. Unfortunately we can't say the same about Eton.

@noworklifebalance

Pot & kettle come to mind with your narrow-minded, sweeping generalisations. Inverted snobbery is just as toxic.

Don't be silly. There is an enormous difference between punching down and punching up.

Can you see now how ridiculous this thread is?

The OP isn't well written, but the debate has been interesting. Suggest you read the thread through as there have already been plenty of variations on your Hindley comment, but also a lot of intelligent and well-considered discussion.

@unmarkedbythat - right back at you. Inverted snobbery allows attitudes of “it’s not for the likes of us” and prevents social mobility.
Before you jump down my throat, I am not remotely suggesting that people should aspire to be Etonians.

Quite. An earlier poster with responsibility for recruitment said that seeing Eton on a CV was a 'red flag'. Frankly I think that's appalling. Nobody should be ruled out because of their background - either way. Yes, you might need to look at degrees of weighting (eg in contextualised university offers), but that has to be done incredibly careful. And otherwise, people should be judged on their merits. Simply rejecting a candidate because they went to Eton is no better than rejecting someone because they went to a sink comp.

There is an enormous difference between punching down and punching up

Unmarked so you think you can insult with impunity anyone you think might be richer than you?
I don’t know if you have children but if you do, do you encourage them to sneer at any unfortunate ‘posh’ children they come across?

Of course we should all be decent and kind to others, but those 'posh children' have privileges which cannot exist without other people's underprivilege, and that's a political issue. Discussing how much of a privilege gap is compatible with social equality is not sneering or inverted snobbery.

An earlier poster with responsibility for recruitment said that seeing Eton on a CV was a 'red flag'

I hope this company makes it clear on their application forms that they don’t want Etonians so they don’t bother wasting their time applying for jobs there.

Discussing how much of a privilege gap is compatible with social equality is not sneering or inverted snobbery

That is barely being discussed. It’s more of a mud slinging match based on a handful of politicians out of goodness know how many went that school.

It is not possible to remove privilege. It will always be there unless we move to a communist system, which that doesn’t work well either and even then other types of privilege will emerge or become more apparent.

It’s the sweeping generalisation that I find so depressing and really hinders any meaningful discussion or progress. Such entrenched views based on so little knowledge and experience - of course your own experience will have a huge influence on your views and choices but there seems to be no acceptance of anyone else’s valid experiences. And yes, it is inverted snobbery and it does much to hinder debate and progress.
(I was state educated throughout would have been considered under privileged in at lease categories when growing up, if the concept was well recognised then)

It will always be there unless we move to a communist system

Good post noworklifebalance - and were this country to embrace communism people would leave in their hundreds of thousands, as happened in the former East Germany until the Wall went up.

It is not possible to remove privilege. It will always be there unless we move to a communist system, which that doesn’t work well either and even then other types of privilege will emerge or become more apparent

That's why I used the word 'reduce' not 'remove'. Are you really suggesting that we can't reduce inequality because that can only lead to communism?

In our democratic country people from ordinary backgrounds have reduced access to certain areas of power, not because they lack skills or intelligence, but because opportunities are limited by a network of powerful people who went to a very small number of schools. A few examples of the areas I am talking about (apart from politics) are journalism/media, theatre, law, medicine and certain top universities. I work in an arts field, but I imagine there are similar issues for some areas of the sciences.

I've named some industries and included links because you accused me of making sweeping generalisations, which I think was unfair. This is not mud-slinging. It's pointing out inequalities that are damaging to our country, and to many people's lives.

Here’s a grip for you op.

🙄

Thanks @Wakemeupwhenthisisover. I'll just get back to tugging my forelock and remembering my designated place in the hierarchy now.

One of the most useful skills to acquire as a child is how to get on with people. Public Schools might teach a child how to get on with elite, but do they reach child how to get on with the majority of people?

You're right Beachlane, but reducing privilege does need to be balanced against choice and freedom (which might include the freedom to spend money on your child's education if that's what you choose to do, or on better food, housing, educational enrichment etc). And private school parents probably get defensive because private schools become the scapegoat for all of society's inequalities in a very black and white way. Yes, an Old Etonian might have an advantage over a bright MC child from a high performing comprehensive when it comes to breaking into politics or the media. But that bright MC child also has massive advantages over an equally bright child growing up in poverty and attending a very low-performing school, possibly with other factors such as caring responsibilities, parent in prison etc thrown in. Yes, it's right to try to reduce inequality, but you too often see (particularly on MN) people implying that if you just got rid of Eton etc, everything would be fine.

I agree. I think private schools over inflate their pupils egos.