Before you send your kids to public school ...

[pontypridd]

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

I've sent 2 sons to private secondary school . We did think very hard about what sort of person we'd be shaping for this world, and so far we're gratified with the results. They are well rounded, fun to be with, and considerate, most of the time. On the other hand, OP, assuming you weren't privately educated and if I apply the same ridiculous generalisation that you did, you're a very bad advert for state system.

I think you go to prep school till 8 and then move on to senior

Nicegerbil what are you talking about? Children start at prep school and 8 - they don’t leave at that age.
Also those that have an entrance exam certainly don’t allow in the children of Lords if they haven’t passed the exam.
Where on earth did you get that idea from?

Private schools should be abolished and everyone sent to the geographically nearest

Fallada What happens if the parents refuse to send their children to the nearest school?.
What if they prefer to home school them? Or send them to school abroad?

It won't happen Falluja. Education is an industry; the UK is good at the best end of it, and people from all over the world will buy it. Lots of companies make phones, but if one company makes the best version it's going to outsell the others. The best UK schools are among the best in the world. Nobody is going to pay to get into Cowtown Comp.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Apologies, @Fallaja.

Jealously never looked good on anyone.

And yes - I have two lovely children in public school.

Here’s your grip. Use it.

@Southwestten

Private schools should be abolished and everyone sent to the geographically nearest

Fallada What happens if the parents refuse to send their children to the nearest school?.
What if they prefer to home school them? Or send them to school abroad?

The good state schools around here are bloody hard to get into. Plus the catchment areas are teensy, which means house prices are crazy.

So people with the money pay £££ for houses to get their kids in - and some of these are rich and famous and celeb types (could well afford private), so house prices go up and locals get priced out.

Equality, eh?

Errr, even Fallada. Grovelling.

Wanting a fairer society, and concern for the wellbeing of all children, not just your own, is not jealousy.

Abolishing private schools won't create a fairer society, it just means that certain catchment areas (unaffordable to most) will have better schools, but they will be state funded and bolstered with donations. That state money would be better spent on other schools and pupils. Society is unfair, someone who is from a wealthy family with good connections will always have a better shot at a decent, well paying career regardless of what school they go to.

Last time I checked my children were kind, well-rounded, confident and understanding individuals but thanks for the concern.

'Essentially this is about the UK class system, is the bottom line.

So my neighbour - first gen immigrants with 3 kids in a 2 bed flat - his kids getting secondary school scholarships from of the local state primary (where they got bullied) are what then?'

Sorry I don't understand the question.

I don't understand the PP comment either ' I disagree NiceGerbil. It's about wanting something better for your children. If you are happy for them to live your life, that's fine too.'

Apologies for the public school age 8 thing. Like I say, I'm not of that world. Something happens at age 8 though I think, which is not in step with the state or private school system.

@Pheobeasy

Abolishing private schools won't create a fairer society, it just means that certain catchment areas (unaffordable to most) will have better schools, but they will be state funded and bolstered with donations. That state money would be better spent on other schools and pupils. Society is unfair, someone who is from a wealthy family with good connections will always have a better shot at a decent, well paying career regardless of what school they go to.

Society is unfair and no one thing is a complete fix. But if all the wealthy and influential had to use the state system rather than buying out of it, there would be vastly more political pressure to improve it.

Pheobeasy I fundamentally disagree with that. That's probably not for this thread though. I feel the same about the NHS.

Two or three tier systems fundamentally drive inequality. Because the people with money and power have zero reason to improve or support the system provided by the state.

Xposts with alittlehelp. Same point.

I went t a state school and did well.
My DCs went state and were failed badly - so I now send them privately because I can.
The transformation has been unbelievable- I have 2 v polite confident tweens, who question and think, understand the differences between the two and make use of every opportunity.

No regrets - best thing for my DCs, may not be foreveryone

Because the people with money and power have zero reason to improve or support the system provided by the state.

But they still pay into them, they just don't access them. People wouldn't neccessarily have a vested interest in improving anything outside of their own bubble anyway, they would just donate money into schools locally, and others wouldn't be able to afford housing in the catchment area. Probably the same with healthcare, some areas would receive more donations than other. People with money and power will always have choices, they don't have a duty to try and better things for others, as much as that would be great. I would rather everything was brought up to the same standard, sure, but abolishing them isn't going to do that.

I totally understand why everyone does what they can for their children- for me it's a societal point not a criticism of anyone who pays for education.

Round here for eg we have ' super selective' state schools. The parents who can afford it start paying for tutoring really young. Same difference- buying advantage or a head start. And again, no criticism to parents who do that. It's more a question around is our education system fair. The answer is no. Does society want to change that? The ones with the power to do so, of course not.

The fact that we end up with talent squandered and middling people in highly paid/ influential jobs is the norm though.

Pheo it's not about 'donations' though.

It's about how with national provision like schools / NHS, if they are truly universal then there will be more focus and funding as people with power and wealth and in government etc will be invested in making it good.

When you have a two tier system, there is little interest from the people with the power and wealth in how things are functioning for people who are not like them, as it were.

It's just human nature.

There were a lot of private school people on my uni course, I worked bloody hard to get a place and it seemed so far out of reach growing up; but most of them just saw it as the norm and just always assumed they would get a place. I think in honesty having family etc in well paid and 'good' careers has a huge impact on achievement when older, because it seems well within reach. That is a huge factor, along with school.

Most of my relatives went to public schools and married public school chaps. I am able to say that without exception, they are the politest, kindest, least judgemental people I have met in 60+ years. Amazingly well mannered. They are not all particularly successful (though some are), but generous and warm and friendly.

OTOH, I'm not at all sure that much of their characters are not down to how their families behave rather than just the products of public schools. I think you may have to have a kind family as well as the good education.

Thousands of wealthy parents use the state system and they cannot possibly improve the school!

I went to a fairly minor boarding school as my father was in the forces and they used to pay so your kids didn't have to be uprooted every two years as they approached their exams. Before that I changed primary schools 7 times!

So I don't think we were entitled, just practical.

I suppose it was quite 'posh' and it was selective academically - but beyond that it really wasn't a big deal. I loved it! We were taught manners, such as never to be seen eating in the street (lol) and made to clean our shoes and change our sheets aged 11 - wish my kids (going to the local comp) would!

Maybe some of the top schools are still producing entitled oiks but I don't think you should tar everyone with the same brush.

PatriciaPerch

oh fuck off
if they had of needed special school you'd have been fucked if not extremely wealthy

Firstly my children wouldn’t have got into a Special School as they were both dyslexic, ADHD/ADD.

Secondly I wouldn’t have considered ourselves wealthy. Our income at the time was pretty average. We just didn’t smoke, drink, eat meat. We ran around in a car that cost £500 from eBay and the house we lived in would have been definitely described by an EA as in need of renovation.

There were a few parents at dds private school who were seriously wealthy but for the most part the parents were quite ordinary people living in quite modest flats and houses and who made there living as hairdressers, builders etc

To think someone is seriously wealthy just because their child goes to private school is a complete fallacy.

We tried the state system and it failed both dc
If we had stuck with it I can honestly say Ds would have left completely illiterate and dd would have failed everything.