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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Before you send your kids to public school ...

313 replies

pontypridd · 18/09/2020 16:52

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

OP posts:
BlackberrySky · 18/09/2020 20:28

Read Posh Boys by Robert Verkaik, OP. I think it may cover the point you're making. It isn't specifically about politicians who went to public school, but rather about the damaging effects of elitist education to the nation as a whole. It is an interesting read, even if you don't agree with everything in it

Ihatefish · 18/09/2020 20:31

The nicest, most down to earth and kindest boss I ever had was an old Etonian (his sons were also at Eton). I went to the local comp With a lot of future prison inmates. Now let me think who I would rather run the country

Ori82 · 18/09/2020 20:40

Let me assure you, some comps churn out evil fuckers too. I went to what can only be described as an offender’s boot-camp posing as a secondary school and it was rough. I didn’t learn much academically but I know how to stand on my own two feet. I wouldn’t want anyone I encountered there to wield any sort of power.

I went into that place from a public school-environment & I learnt pretty quickly how to survive. Keep your head down, don’t look people in the eye, don’t speak unless you’re spoken to and only fight as a last resort because most likely your antagonist is carrying a knife or some kind of sharp weapon, that can easily be concealed in a hand. Don’t ever snitch on anything you’ve seen otherwise you’ll be eating through a straw for the next 6 months.

So yes, I would pay serous money to save my sons from the terrifying years I spent there. It damaged me.

XingMing · 18/09/2020 20:48

BlackberrySky, the whole problem with education is that most is not sufficiently elitist. The elite lifts us all, and makes life better; the failure comes when too many accept that mediocrity is good enough for their "average". If everyone was conditioned to think that the next generation deserved better, and demanded a shot at it, and had a picture of what it looked like and how to get there, then we would be on a path to upskilling the population.

dayswithaY · 18/09/2020 20:49

This is a moot point as Johnson, Cummings and Cameron would still be twats how ever much their school fees were.

I went to a failing comp and just used the word moot.

PatriciaPerch · 18/09/2020 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Looneytune253 · 18/09/2020 20:54

Most of these comments seem to believe public schools are the same as private schools ....... serious differences guys and very relevant to the OP

Planetaryexplorer · 18/09/2020 21:00

I went to a private school. I now work for a charity advocating for the most vulnerable in society.
I am going to send my dc3 to private school. He needs to be built up and given confidence which he won't get from our local secondaries.

Southwestten · 18/09/2020 21:03

Most of these comments seem to believe public schools are the same as private schools ....... serious differences guys and very relevant to the OP

In what way are the differences relevant to the OP?

BeachLane · 18/09/2020 21:07

I don't think kids at public school are taught to lie or be toxic. There are toxic, dishonest people who went to state schools too. The half dozen children I know at public schools are all lovely, polite, friendly children. I imagine they've been taught social skills/speaking more effectively than at a state school, but it's not a bad thing to speak with confidence, be friendly, put others at their ease.

For me there are two problems with public schools. Firstly that they perpetuate inequality by allowing people to buy a high level education and contacts with powerful people. People tend to choose others for work and social opportunities who are like themselves - we all do it because it makes us feel more comfortable. So if you happen to be in a position of power, you are likely to gather similar people around you.

That's unfair, but maybe more importantly it's a bad thing for the country and the economy if the brightest and most able kids don't make it to the top in their field (or maybe don't even make it into their field of choice) because they went to the wrong school and either didn't get the education to develop them, or were overlooked for opportunities because of the old boys' network. This seems to be happening in government at the moment - it's hard to imagine that anyone as incompetent as Boris Johnson would have got beyond something like working in a local estate agent if he'd been to a comprehensive.

Someone mentioned actors and writers as examples of worthwhile people who'd been to their public school. They might be lovely people, but privately educated people are hugely over-represented in the arts. That's important because culture represents who we are as a nation, and it's not doing it's job if it largely represents the viewpoints and experiences of the wealthy and privately educated.

Public schools are unlikely to disappear, but what we could do instead is to have far more focus on reducing inequality in selection for a wide range of opportunities like jobs, top university places, parliamentary candidates, allocating public grants and funding, etc, by looking at people's actual skills and intelligence rather than knowing what school they went to. And of course getting rid of the schools' charitable status.

XingMing · 18/09/2020 21:08

The distinctions between public and private schools are daft. If you pay for education, then you have expectations of something better. Technically, the term is publicly funded (as in the taxpayer) or privately funded (from my pocket or yours). The independent sector keeps plugging away because if they didn't the customers would not pay; parents are not captives.

Notonthestairs · 18/09/2020 21:09

Private/public/state I don't really care - we need politicians with empathy , intelligence, diligence and willingness to understand society beyond their own. And a determination to improve economics and opportunities.

And as voters we also carry the responsibility of not ticking a box or paying our subs out of habit.

They should earn our respect.

We should also read beyond headlines - proper journalism is (I think) underrated but so important. Less click bait.

That's down to us.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 21:18

I think there is some confusion here over the difference between public/ private schools.

And I must admit I'm not 100% myself!

I went to private schools. That is paid for but they come in various types.

My primary was a Roman Catholic school (with nuns!) In London. If you paid you went. Large numbers of children of Irish and Italian descent who wanted a Catholic education for their children. Academic standards were not great or anything.

Secondary I went to a selective private school. If you passed the exams and got in and your parents could pay you could go. A reasonable mix of children who had parents who were doing well enough and saved up- some children who were super talented at eg music got bursaries etc. My classmates had parents who were teachers, nurses, that sort of thing. Plus some wealthier business types. I suspect that it's out of reach of those occupations now but it's all, if you get in and can pay then ok.

Public schools are different entirely. They have a whole different set of entry ages for a start. I think you go to prep school till 8 and then move on to senior. Prep schools are expensive obv. So already it's out of step with state and private schools. It's a different system..

My brother went to a public school on a scholarship. Most children boarded (another thing that seems to be the standard at public schools). My brother was a 'day boy'.

It was really really posh, massive and different even to me as a private school girl. Just a totally different ball game.

And here I get a bit guessy. I would imagine that if you were the child of a lord of something, you could go irrespective of academic achievement? Others may no more. To me though they're about social position and mixing with others in a similar social position in a money no object type place. Of course many get excellent results etc.

I mean my experience is limited but public and private schools are totally different.

From my point of view which I know will be unpopular.

The tax breaks given to these schools as charities (at least the private ones, I don't know if public are set up that way) are ridiculous.

There's no doubt that public schools serve the privileged to funnel their children through well trodden routes to various positions.

There was a lot of to and fro about grammar schools and whether they were a good idea. I can see the arguments against but having seen a documentary a few years back, removing the grammar school system, rather than bringing more equality, simply meant that there were very few people breaking through that class divide at all any more.

I would be supportive of a comprehensive system across the board and get rid of being able to buy an education. It's inequitable and creates a two (in our case 3) tier system.

Having all the children in state education would focus on improving standards there and mean a more level playing field.

I know that this is controversial and never going to happen! But just putting it out there.

I also think that it's not good to have so many religious schools. Again, another conversation.

XingMing · 18/09/2020 21:20

I hear and agree with 80% of what you write BeachLane, but when the comprehensive schools my DS attended for several years didn't teach him anything beyond what he had already learned by the end of Y9 towards his GCSEs (he is severely dyslexic but not stupid) then the state system I know it's under pressure to deliver average is only going to deliver average... and more average is NOT what is needed.

If it takes paying for education to get something a little better than not very good, which is what a lot of the country gets outside the gilded areas of the SE, then there are people, most of them not very posh, who will say "f*ck holidays, new cars and home improvements for 10 years; I'll give my child a better education". We did.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 21:21

Essentially this is about the UK class system, is the bottom line.

XingMing · 18/09/2020 21:35

I disagree NiceGerbil. It's about wanting something better for your children. If you are happy for them to live your life, that's fine too.

MaskingForIt · 18/09/2020 21:42

@pontypridd

Think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

Under this leadership of lies the youth of today will learn that to survive they must shun the truth.

Public speaking and leadership skills are toxic if they lead to the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson, Cummings and Gove etc

Power needs to removed from these poisonous public school places.

99 % of the U.K. prison population went to state school. Before sending your child to state school think about what sort of person you are shaping for this world.

95 % of cannebis users went to a state primary school. STATE SCHOOLS CAUSE DRUG USE.

Oh wait, correlation is not causation.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 21:48

'I disagree NiceGerbil. It's about wanting something better for your children. If you are happy for them to live your life, that's fine too.'

I don't get the 'live my life' part. I don't understand.

And as long as the state system is seen as lesser, and people who can afford it opt out, then social inequalities persist.

It's well known that state schools in wealthier areas with engaged parents who fundraise etc do better. If all children in the UK were in the state system, there would be more political, local drive to support state schools.

Same goes for the NHS.

Two tier systems never help the second tier people.

We are losing massive talent in society, and having mediocre people at the top, with the system we have. Of course a lot of people are ok with that, because it preserves their upper tier opportunities, or because they have aspirations to get there.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 21:50

Sorry that was long.

Xing Ming I don't get the 'happy for them to live your life' thing, what do you mean please?

Bluntness100 · 18/09/2020 21:52

Friday night is vino night op? Just ask for it to be deleted in the morning then name change. Nobody need know.🥴

SerenityNowwwww · 18/09/2020 21:58

@NiceGerbil

Essentially this is about the UK class system, is the bottom line.
So my neighbour - first gen immigrants with 3 kids in a 2 bed flat - his kids getting secondary school scholarships from of the local state primary (where they got bullied) are what then?

My friend - another immigrant - who is a single mum with 2 kids (and awol) dad getting her older kid (younger one still in primary) into private school to give him the ‘best education’ she can think of, or another friend whose son was so badly bullied she pulled every string she could find to get him into a fee paying expat school (her husband was from that country).

The schools are kind here are not brilliant, it’s not like where I grew up - our state schools were not great but the worst we got up to was smoking behind the bike sheds or snogging your boyfriend at the town hall disco - not carrying knives or slipping off to Syria.

Rumbletumbleinmytummy · 18/09/2020 21:58

Oh, riiiight.
I dont agree in the slightest. I know quite a few products of the public school system, and none have made me think, well! Poisonous or any of the other things you list.

SerenDippitty · 18/09/2020 22:04

It’s a mistake to think you are giving your child a better education just because you are paying for it. There are some awful private schools just as there are excellent state schools.

XingMing · 18/09/2020 22:07

NiceGerbil, if you live in an area where parents have enough income to help with fundraising towards enrichment, that's wonderful.

But locally, most parents don't. Where we live is rural, and poor. There simply aren't highly paid jobs to apply for, just garden centres, care, retail and, best paid of all and top of the food chain, the public sector; the NHS is a pinnacle.

Parents here do want their children to do better, but if the parents and children don't know about the world of investment banking, it's unlikely to appear on their list of aspirations. Here children know they need to be builders, plumbers and electricians to be regularly employed and decently remunerated. Actor .... unlikely; never make a living, lad/lass. Most people have to make a living.

As regards, happy for them to live your life, I mean only to ask do they want the same sort of life that you have had? Or do they want skills that could take them into a new life even if it's far from where they grew up?

Fallada · 18/09/2020 22:12

@workhomesleeprepeat

Sorry OP this has made me laugh a lot!

Agree that Johnson and Rhys-Moggs are gross but not everyone who goes to public school ends up like that.

Private schooling in this country ends up looking so awful to people because it helps to uphold the class system, but trying to make a political statement through where you send your kids to school is just silly.

Most people who educate their kids privately so so because they think the quality of the education might be better. You surely cannot fault people for that.

Sure I can fault them for that. The education system in the UK drives social inequality. Private schools should be abolished and everyone sent to the geographically nearest.