To be wary of hatred directed towards the British Empire

[Bumpitybumper]

With the rise of movements such as BLM, there seems to be a growing hatred towards the British Empire and a keenness to point out all of the flaws and terrible things the empire and key individuals within it did. I too am horrified when I think about the role that the empire played in slavery and events such as the Irish Potato Famine. As these things become better publicised then there seems to be a growing school of thought that this is a white or at least British people problem that we must somehow atone for and feel guilty about. The British Empire has been cast as the ultimate villain and something we must be ashamed about.

My concern though is that lots of countries around the world have had empires and inevitably when these countries held lots of power, they acted in ways that we would now regard as morally reprehensible. The Mongol and Roman empires for example, were extremely cruel and many empires sort to brutally stamp out religious or cultural differences and gain control. Equally empires have brought about advancements in technology and improved the living standards of millions of people around the world.

Am I therefore being unreasonable to suggest that it is only fair to look at empires holistically and through the lens of the time they operated in? Of course the wrongdoings and horrendous acts mustn't be hidden, but equally they should be given context and positive acts shouldn't be erased either.

I also think having grown up in a 'colony' and now living in the UK that most brits don't have a clue about what their own country did....

I'm not sure how it can be claimed that the British empire didn't involve the systematic and deliberately targeted persecution of those they colonised. It was still happening in living memory - the Mau Mau detention camps were in the 50s (which was after the 2nd world war, so you'd think we'd have learned the lessons by then).

In my view, invading someone's country and embarking on a systematic programme of violence and terror in order to maintain control is pretty much the definition of "seeking out" people in order to destroy them.

Of course other empires did this too, but the British empire is what is being discussed in this country and "they did it too" is a pathetic defence. This country glosses over and glorifies our history, when what we should be doing is taking a frank (and possibly uncomfortable) look at it and learning from it. There is very little glory there. The Germans have managed to do this in relation to the third Reich, but we persist in kidding ourselves.

There are plenty of people in this country who do glorify the empire and "the good old days" when Britannia ruled the waves. This mentality provided fertile ground to the promoters of Brexit.

I think I meant Carolingian didn’t I? I don’t know why I always get those two confused, clue’s in the name after all! . The empire created by William the Conqueror is called the Angevin empire, not the French empire, and its relations with the political entity claiming kingship of France was highly complex. “France” was a debatable concept for a long time, as was “Germany” of course. Times move on. That’s kind of the point.

*I also think having grown up in a 'colony' and now living in the UK that most brits don't have a clue about what their own country did....”

No they wouldn’t have, as most of them were stuck down the mines or in the factories with no control over the situation. That only changed for a very short time post-World Wars and is now going backwards.

@Islandblue
I think you are entirely correct there.

I finished uk school in 2011 so not a huge time ago. I also studied history at gcse, a level. All the points i could within the school system
Other than the usual kings and queens, tudors etc
I learnt about slavery but in a very american context, also about the american civil rights movement due to segregation (rosa parks, malcom ex) etc. We also learnt about the vietnam war. I dont remember British slavery really being mentioned.

We did ww1, and ww2. Both of which was a european focus. Nothing about other fights outside of europe (or even really any of the russian side), or about the fact it included countries that werent European. We did mention pearl harbour though. Lots on the holocaust.

We didnt do any of the more recent stuff eg other genocides, genuinely nothing about colonialism. I didnt even get taught the commonwealth etc.

There was nothing that involved british influence in the outside world. In terms of holocaust etc you would think that there are also recent examples that would be helpful to teach as well eg rwanda. Nothing that wasnt European history of uk, Germany, france. Nothing of ireland really ( i think a brief potato famine mention).

No, the reason most Brits have no clue is because it simply isn't taught honestly in schools. I suspect that attempts to introduce a balanced teaching of the empire's history to the national curriculum would lead to accusations of "anti-Englishness", "PC gone mad" etc.

I agree that most Brita (my ancestors included) were not part of the ruling elite who perpetrated the crimes of the empire, but that isn't the reason why we have no clue.

That was to Pepperpot

@Gatr that's really interesting. I would for example imagine the average Brit does not know what happened in New Zealand when the British landed.

The only question I would ask about introducing more British Empire history into schools is what is going to be dropped to make way for it. It’s usually taught at the optional age too. Do you want history to be compulsory all the way through? History has not been a well-regarded subject, nor part of a culture focused only on chasing big bucks for a while.

@Gatr - you cannot cover the entirety of History in a couple of hours a week. Surely if you developed the skills of understanding and analysis you could read it up yourself? Don't blame History teachers for gaps that would be impossible for them to fill.

I don't think it even matters if schools teach it or not but it's just interesting that people don't know the broad history of their country.

History is everything that ever happened. Impossible to cover it all in school when we live in a country where it isn't prioritised at all on the curriculum. You could be forgiven for thinking that only Maths, English and Science matters!

people don't know the broad history of their country - a bit of a sweeping statement unless you've spoken to about 65m people!

@Maireas

Im not blaming my teachers. I was responding to someone who said that most british people arent aware of certain things, i was confirming they arent in the curriculum.

I would argue it does need to be overhauled to include or at least point people in the direction of certain things. Why did i learn about american slavery, civil rights and not british? Why in the many many lessons i had on world wars was the contribution of other countries not even mentioned? Or that theres been subsequent genocides? I also did a whole unit of vietnam war, which i think was at least 30-50% of my gcse.

You dont know what you dont know. I agree that you cant teach all history and its more about developing the skills and intrest but we should be at least alluding to the fact theres massive parts missed.

The problem with history is there is just too much of it - and they're making more all the time!

There is great need for teaching the recent history so our children could understand how colonialism works in the 21st century. What happened after 9/11 in Iraq and in Afghanistan? What happened in their neighbour countries? How drugs and weapons industries, as well as others, benefited from it all and what will be the consequences in the next few decades?
We massively underestimated the the power of learning our children have. Especially in the age of internet.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Apologies for my ignorance but is it being pushed out for those things? Thats a real shame. I loved history throught school and it really improved my english skills/comprehension as a result.

YABU.

Come back when we have our six counties back and we'll talk.

@Gatr - I have no idea why those particular topics were on your curriculum, and others not. You may consider that you have gaps in your knowledge as a consequence. I never learned anything about the Aztecs or the Incas, I find them fascinating and have a shelf full of books on them!

I've seen quite a few posters saying that these issues aren't taught in schools, but that wasn't the case when I was at school over thirty years ago.

I don't recall the empire ever being glorified, we were taught about the horrors of colonialism and it's ongoing impact on many parts of the world. In A-Level History we covered the British role in the Great Famine in Ireland. I also remember discussion of Winston Churchill's racist views when covering WW2.

When I was at university, empire was never taught or referred to in anything other than scathing terms.

If these topics aren't being covered today, does anyone know when the change came and who was responsible?

I do wonder if perhaps teachers were given more autonomy to teach what they thought was important back then, rather than sticking to a rigid curriculum?

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

I'm not sure how it can be claimed that the British empire didn't involve the systematic and deliberately targeted persecution of those they colonised. It was still happening in living memory - the Mau Mau detention camps were in the 50s (which was after the 2nd world war, so you'd think we'd have learned the lessons by then).

In my view, invading someone's country and embarking on a systematic programme of violence and terror in order to maintain control is pretty much the definition of "seeking out" people in order to destroy them.

Of course other empires did this too, but the British empire is what is being discussed in this country and "they did it too" is a pathetic defence. This country glosses over and glorifies our history, when what we should be doing is taking a frank (and possibly uncomfortable) look at it and learning from it. There is very little glory there. The Germans have managed to do this in relation to the third Reich, but we persist in kidding ourselves.

There are plenty of people in this country who do glorify the empire and "the good old days" when Britannia ruled the waves. This mentality provided fertile ground to the promoters of Brexit.

Hear hear!

@SquashedSpring - I have taught History in state schools for almost 37 years. In all that time we have taught about the British Empire in an honest way, including atrocities, and have never glorified it. We have taught about Ireland, including the problems caused by the British. I am on a History teachers forum and contribute to a magazine. I have no idea why or how some people have been taught to glorify the empire or colonialism.

I remember learning about the "potato famine" (deliberately in quotes) at primary school in the late 60s/early 70s (might even have been in 1st year at secondary in 1973) in Scotland. We were just taught it in the context of a single crop that was then destroyed by potato blight, leading to starvation and many people then leaving for the "New World". No mention made of food exports to Great Britain to put it in context . That was something I only learnt about as an adult, with an interest in learning about history so it didn't repeat itself.

I was born in South Africa, which my family left because of apartheid when I was only 3. What many people don't realise is that the UK, as the colonial power, actually put in place the beginnings of the apartheid system; that's part of the reason why the SA Government was so upset at being criticised for apartheid policies in later years.

We did the potato famine at school, what we didn't do much of was the highland clearances which apparently were even more destructive in terms of people affected.

Lots of bad things happened in the past, lots of bad things happening now. Time to get over the past (not forget it) but focus on doing right now. (whatever right is)

We did the "potato famine", but not much context about the British actions behind it. Nothing on the highland clearances at all.

We did do a fair bit on the history of Ireland more generally though, and the fight for independence.

@BigFatLiar - We did the potato famine at school

If they taught you it was a potato famine, then no, you did not cover the Great Famine in Ireland.