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Energy suppliers want powers to switch off electricity via smart meters

52 replies

Itsabeautifuldayheyhey · 17/09/2020 16:07

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/bills/article-8706033/Smart-meters-used-switch-electricity-without-warning-compensation.html

Wtf? Do you think this law would get through in the spring, enabling electricity to be switched off via smart meters in emergencies (where residents are using too much). Every household would need a 3rd generation smart meter and they would surely need to be made compulsory?

I'd be surprised if energy suppliers could manage to roll out 3rd generation smart meters to all households in a short space of time (especially as they haven't rolled 1st & 2nd generation out to all yet).

OP posts:
saiditbetterthanme · 17/09/2020 16:09

How would this work though?

gamerchick · 17/09/2020 16:13

Well that was common knowledge anyway wasn't it? It was always going to come to that.

ThePittts · 17/09/2020 16:13

I hope it doesn't get through, sounds like a disaster. I have so far refused a smart meter.

gamerchick · 17/09/2020 16:15

@ThePittts

I hope it doesn't get through, sounds like a disaster. I have so far refused a smart meter.
So have I and had a strong word about hassling me with my ES and put a lock on my meter cupboard door in case they just show up one day while I'm out and husband lets them in.
Zilla1 · 17/09/2020 16:16

Haven't read the link but it was always part of the smart energy network plan to enable smart meters to communicate with individual appliances to switch off devices that could cope with cessation of supply like washing machines, dryers, fridges and freezers to temporarily reduce demand. This was, I think, one of the few benefits of the smart network business case to help match supply and demand but I don't recall mention of intended blanket power cuts. From what In remember, unintended power cuts in a more fragile wind and solar but no baseline nuclear and no coal may lead to (routine) unintended power cuts unless distributed storage gets rolled out. The other dimension of difficulty if how much capacity the local street-level network will have to change lots of EVs overnight. I saw some analysis that more than a handful of cars across a hundred homes would require juggling which could be automated, More than say 20 and the local network may require (expensive) upgrading.

WitsEnding · 17/09/2020 16:22

Common knowledge. On your electricity bill there is a letter (on mine it’s between the address and the salutation). This is your Rota Disconnection Code (geographic) for use if times get tough.

If technology allows suppliers to identify heavy users and shut them off individually, without meaning none of us old ladies can boil a kettle, so much the better.

Ohdeariedear · 17/09/2020 16:24

Yes, this is part of the reason for smart meters and the reason DH won’t allow one to be fitted. He’s been banging on about this for years (is in the industry).

Zilla1 · 17/09/2020 16:30

At the risk of appearing selfish, the householder might ask what are the benefits of installing a smart meter before agreeing. Those benefits include.....

There was an issue with gen 1 but possibly not gen 2 that they caused problems if the householder wanted to change supplier. I'm not sure that was fully resolved for everyone.

OneForMeToo · 17/09/2020 16:31

We have a gem 1 meter so I’d just switch supplier and they it would be dumb.

I think if you pay for what you use then I don’t see the issue tbh. I’d love solar panels on my roof but I can’t afford to install them.

WhoWouldHaveThoughtThat · 17/09/2020 16:32

I won't have a Smart meter as I believe that they will also the ability to charge a variable (higher) rate when demand is heavier - or whenever they like.

Havaiana · 17/09/2020 16:32

I have always refused to install a smart meter. All the letters from the energy companies threatening me that I would be forced to install it by 2019 were binned. Came to naught.

Funkypolar · 17/09/2020 16:32

All about control.

Itsabeautifuldayheyhey · 17/09/2020 16:33

Zilla1
I didn't realise it had always been the intention to do this. I must be very naive. So far, I have refused to have a smart meter purely because of the way they have tried to make an appointment to fit one, as if it's compulsory (and I can be bloody-minded sometimes).

Mmm, if the uptake of electric vehicles increases then it could cause significant problems for us. Maybe it is good that many may permanently wfh in future in order to cut down on the number of electric vehicles on the roads.

OP posts:
vanillandhoney · 17/09/2020 16:35

This is why I've always refused to install one. They're not for your benefit - it's naive in the extreme to believe that the electric companies have any interest in saving you money Hmm

Funkypolar · 17/09/2020 16:36

Done something the government don’t agree with? Your electricity gets turned off.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 17/09/2020 16:44

What about those of us who don't have sufficient mobile signal for it to work?

jcyclops · 17/09/2020 17:47

On 9th August 2019, Little Barford power station and the Hornsea Wind Farm dropped off the grid simultaneously, leading to disruption throughout the country as the only option was power cuts. A million customers lost supply and there was widespread disruption to critical infrastructure, especially transport.
The ability to cut or restrict domestic supplies using smart meters would have been much more preferable. Those on the register of vulnerable customers could be protected and excluded from loss of supply.

Toomanyradishes · 17/09/2020 18:31

I woder how they would understand and manage supply for medical equipment in homes? Having your fridge go off for an hour is one thing, a cpap machine is very different

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/09/2020 18:42

They're not for your benefit - it's naive in the extreme to believe that the electric companies have any interest in saving you money

That's it in a nutshell. Why would the energy suppliers be clamouring to pay hundreds of pounds per home for free meters for you so as to merely enable you to buy less of their product from them, with no benefit to themselves (and the government, who offer them incentives and/or give them targets with huge fines if unmet)?

They have NEVER mentioned this capability or desire to use it in ANY of their advertising when they've been encouraging/urging/cajoling/guilting you to get them fitted. People who have been cautioning against it all along for this reason (and there are several others) have been sneered at, called conspiracy theorists and told they're being stupid and ridiculous.

Domestic power will also be the victim of shrinkflation: as (if) people use less and less of it, the price will simply go up per unit, as they will still have costs to cover, employees to pay and profit levels to protect. Modern home appliances use a fraction of the energy their equivalents from 20 years ago did, but has anybody seen the benefit in considerably lower bills? Or have they just continued to rise regardless?

Beware the Internet Of Things - again, that's for their benefit and not yours. Ask yourself why you as a consumer could possibly want your toaster or kettle to be connected to the internet.

It's the same with electric cars. It's true that by transferring the pollution caused by producing the energy of a vehicle from the vehicle itself to the power station, you eliminate pollution in city centres; but it's also true that a car fuelled by petrol or diesel is completely independent and unconnected, in that, as long as you have enough fuel, you can go pretty much wherever you want with it without being tracked (as long as you avoid spy smart motorways and conurbations with CCTV/ANPR cameras).

The long-term plan for electric vehicles, to overcome concerns about charging at home and batteries dying before you reach a place where you can recharge, is for wireless charging as you drive along smart motorways and other connected-up roads. By using your car on major roads, you will be charging it. Maybe it could be brought to every road, possibly by adapting street lamps. If they have the technology to wirelessly transmit power to your car to charge the battery, do you really think the same frequencies couldn't be used to disable a crucial part of the engine just as well?

In the not too distant future, it would be extremely simple for your driverless car (well, not actually yours, as individual car ownership will be scrapped before long) to 'talk' to the grid, receive an alert that an occupant might be wanted by the police/government (whether for a serious crime, minor infringement, tweeting an unpopular opinion etc; and whether you actually committed it or are just believed to have/are mistaken for somebody else), disable the human override function, lock the doors and deliver you to the nearest pollice station or government facility without your having any means to resist.

Whether they will do this or simply could if they wanted to.... who knows? People will read what I just wrote and call me crazy and ridiculous. Many of those same people would also have reacted the same way a few years ago to anybody suggesting the idea that electricity companies might have the ability and want the power to simply remotely 'cancel' you from the grid without warning or discussion.

Mintjulia · 17/09/2020 18:49

Perhaps they are thinking of a time when a household might have three electric cars on charge. Plus a range cooker etc.

I can see why they might want to limit one to keep the lights and central heating switch on for the old lady next door.

malmi · 17/09/2020 18:53

Makes sense to me, selective restrictions rather than a full power cut or rolling blackouts. To be used when there isn't enough power being generated for everything people are trying to use.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/09/2020 18:55

Like most things, there are some very good, worthy reasons for doing it. It's just that there are so many potential dangers and great ability to abuse the power as well.

For example, does anybody in the UK wish we didn't actually have a police force to protect us? Does anybody implicitly trust the police and believe there is no corruption or questionable practice to be found within their ranks?

CuriousFluff · 17/09/2020 18:57

It couldn't work. People cannot go without power for heating purposes, for showers, boilers, general essential living. What about vulnerable people, babies, fish tank owners etc.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/09/2020 18:59

Perhaps they are thinking of a time when a household might have three electric cars on charge. Plus a range cooker etc.

So if a household contains three key workers who need to get to workplaces in three different directions the next morning and meanwhile are wanting to have an main evening meal - you'd see that as justification for stopping them from doing that? It's hardly like they're running a home cannabis farm.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/09/2020 19:01

It couldn't work. People cannot go without power for heating purposes, for showers, boilers, general essential living. What about vulnerable people, babies, fish tank owners etc.

Plenty of poor houeholds already have their lives seriously impacted by the fact that, although the power is there and available for them to freely consume, they can't actually afford to pay for what they need.

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