The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

I think what is meant by ‘stop obsessing over the numbers and get back to living our lives’ is ‘don’t do anything when people catch it’.

No quarantining for symptoms, no tracking of contacts and no isolation.

Ignore that this would kill a lot of vulnerable people - they should be staying indoors, their fault if they get it.

And fingers crossed it doesn’t overwhelm the NHS.

My daughter is currently in 14 days isolation as of last week.It was day 7 of being back at school and her school year are all now attending online school for 2 weeks due to 2 cases in her year.Ditto for my nephew in the year above at the same school

@babybythesea

But in the case I referred to I belive testing was done and the proportion of staff to pupils was still a lot higher .

But yes as I said everyone is still learning about this virus

@nanbread Yes, the whole testing thing is a complete pita. Everyone is snapping up test slots around here for the slightest sniffle. It’s stupid and it’s not sustainable.

@chickenortheegg I’m not really sure what your point is here. It sounds like you want things to get back to normal too. Also, FWIW, I know plenty of HE children who have done GCSEs and A-levels and I have personal experience of it too. HE isn’t just for ‘smart kids’. In fact, a lot of HE children have learning difficulties and struggle in the school environment. It may not be what you want to hear but if you’re worried about their education being disrupted then it’s worth encouraging them to take a bit more control and looking at the resources that are available to them to help them learn independently - it would be good practice for university too.

Here is a thought . Nhs England are responsible for this testing ( yes I know boris said he would take responsibility ) but in 2018 the 2 top officers were paid £19500 and £210000 per annum plus pensions and they are only responsible for a part of the nhs . Not running everything else as well .

Personally I will reserve my anger for them not doing the job they are paid for .

In 2015 about 50 nhs trust managers were paid way more than the pm.

And yes perhaps the trust system be rethought but it was actually not this government that formed the trusts .

@noblegiraffe Um, no. That isn’t what I meant. I just don’t think that obsessing over how many new cases there are each day is in any way helpful. The numbers are going to go up because we are testing more people in the community and it is circulating more. This is not a big deal in itself if serious illness/death is not rising too (and it isn’t).

If you look at the figures over the last few weeks or so, the fatality rate is below 1% and that doesn’t take into consideration all the asymptomatic cases (which some studies have put at over 80% of cases).

@millymollymoomoo

I didn’t vote as I don’t like the choices Schools need to be open with all children in. End of HTH

How can that happen if the schools don't have enough teachers due to not being able to get tests? I'll give it a week before my DCs high school is forced into partial closure due to lack of teachers.

This is not a big deal in itself if serious illness/death is not rising too (and it isn’t).

Yet. But that was when cases were rising mainly in the young folk. Now they’re rising in the over 50s too (I guess those young folk had families) and that is bad news.

We will see the impact of that over the next few weeks. We should all be really hoping the death rates stay low.

The testing system is a joke, you try to get a test but the system sends you miles away, yet testing stations in your local area are empty. They should have put testing kits at local libraries, schools, community centres, printed instructions & a ready addressed bag to seal everything in, double or triple bagged to protect postal staff. Schools are dropping like flies, less than two weeks in to the new term, ten schools have already had to send bubbles home in my area, that is more than one per day, chances are that the same schools will have to close again when someone else tests positive. It would have been better for all schools to have sorted proper distance learning systems to keep staff, pupils & families safe.

@Nat6999

The testing system is a joke, you try to get a test but the system sends you miles away, yet testing stations in your local area are empty. They should have put testing kits at local libraries, schools, community centres, printed instructions & a ready addressed bag to seal everything in, double or triple bagged to protect postal staff. Schools are dropping like flies, less than two weeks in to the new term, ten schools have already had to send bubbles home in my area, that is more than one per day, chances are that the same schools will have to close again when someone else tests positive. It would have been better for all schools to have sorted proper distance learning systems to keep staff, pupils & families safe.

If only the government would fund it.

When schools are forced into closure the government are expecting schools to either deliver lunches to fsm pupils or allow them to come into school to pick up their lunch because they won't fund another voucher scheme. Who is going to pay for the insurance and petrol for staff cars being used to deliver lunches to the children ? What about the safeguarding risk for a teacher who has to deliver a lunch to a pupil who is home alone whilst the adults are out at work?

Not read the full thread yet but YANBU, requirements 3, 4 and 5 are not being met at this time.

@noblegiraffe
No quarantining for symptoms, no tracking of contacts and no isolation.

Ignore that this would kill a lot of vulnerable people - they should be staying indoors, their fault if they get it.

I know people who are openly stating that this is how it should be. They think that it's Darwinism at its finest and that we should let the old, sick and obese die off. Their arguments are that it'll be better for the gene pool and save money as the Department of Work and Pensions won't have as many pension or disability claimants left afterwards.

Just received an email from school saying if we have any Covid symptoms, albeit presenting as a common cold, the DC needs to be tested. Then they acknowledge there is a shortage of tests and may find it difficult to get one. Then we were told if we cannot get access to one, we can have a word with the school..................touch side of nose twice.

Q's.

Why is it so important to have the test done within 5 days of the onset of a symptom? I've never heard this before because I've stopped watching the news

There is a test shortage or processing bottleneck, but it seems that my school can swing one for me. Why would that be?

@WokesFromHome
Why is it so important to have the test done within 5 days of the onset of a symptom? I've never heard this beforebecause I've stopped watching the news

There is a test shortage or processing bottleneck, but it seems that my school can swing one for me. Why would that be?

Tests are more effective (accurate) the sooner you do them after showing symptoms. The effectiveness drops after three days and again after five.

Schools have ten emergency tests that they could potentially supply someone with if there is absolutely no other way for that person to secure a test. As you can imagine, ten tests in a school community of hundreds or thousands is barely a drop in the ocean so it has to be for genuine no-choice cases only.

There is a test shortage or processing bottleneck, but it seems that my school can swing one for me. Why would that be?

All schools were given 10 tests. Ours are nearly gone.

@bumbleymummy
The numbers are going to go up because we are testing more people in the community and it is circulating more.
How does that work when no one can get a friffing test?!

In a secondary school of 1200 plus 120 staff 10 tests is bugger all

[quote Bupkis]@bumbleymummy
The numbers are going to go up because we are testing more people in the community and it is circulating more.
How does that work when no one can get a friffing test?![/quote]
There's a shortage, as in supply outstrips demand. But we are still doing lots of tests, more than previously.

Ok..sorry after spending 3 days trying endlessly to get a test and just getting this message, I'm just finding it a little hard to believe.

Clearly the government didn't realise there would be a huge jump in demand when children returned to school. If a child has a cough or temperature there is no way I'm running the risk of having them back in school without proof that they aren't positive, it's simply not worth it for the health and safety of other pupils and staff alike. I already have a third of my staff off awaiting tests or results, I can't risk any more.

@spanieleyes

Clearly the government didn't realise there would be a huge jump in demand when children returned to school. If a child has a cough or temperature there is no way I'm running the risk of having them back in school without proof that they aren't positive, it's simply not worth it for the health and safety of other pupils and staff alike. I already have a third of my staff off awaiting tests or results, I can't risk any more.

Not just the schools going back. It's coincided with rising numbers of infections, local lock-downs etc that was happening throughout August. They could have coped with one or the other, but not both at the same time.

@PatriciaPerch

the private tests via nhs with symptoms does highlight there isn't actually a shortage of tests, the government just doesn't want you to have one for s a cold or whatever, if you have temp, they want you take the economic and moral and ethical risk on your own shoulders it is quite clear

Excellent point.

Can't get a fucking test. You don't need to be a super forecaster to predict kids back in school would start to get colds which may or may not be Covid-19.
If we could get her a fecking test we'd know what her high temperature was all about. And, if just a cold, she could go back to school.

All schools were given 10 tests. Ours are nearly gone.

DfE website;

"Schools and FE providers should order additional test kits if they have run out or are running out of test kits."

"From 16 September, you can order additional tests kits online. Kits will be supplied in boxes of 10."

"You will be able to make a new order for test kits 21 days after you receive a delivery confirmation email telling you that your previous supply of test kits has been sent."

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-home-test-kits-for-schools-and-fe-providers/coronavirus-covid-19-home-test-kits-for-schools-and-fe-providers

So with 32,770 schools in UK that’s 327,700 tests they had to supply to schools.Combined with the Randox recall of faulty tests & contract problems. Add in Increased demand which was completely foreseeable as more people at work/school/eating out to help out. Now Hancock blames shortfall of tests and inadequacies of the system on the public!

@Iamnotthe1 it’s awful how heartless some people can be. I read an article yesterday in the Guardian about an otherwise fit and well London bus driver in his 60’s called Mally who died from Covid as a result of doing his job without adequate protection. I wonder whether the survival of the fittest fans would feel the same if it was their family and friends?