The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

Is this going to be like when we ordered laptops, Clav?

My kids are out of school - one had symptoms - he dialled into one of his classes and was shocked to hear loads of coughing in the background. It seems that loads of parents don't think coughing is an issue because they have decided it's just a cold - it seems no one at school wants to challenge them on this despite the kids sitting shoulder to shoulder - there's a lot of crossing fingers and hoping their right - I don't know why the teachers are putting up with it - loads of the kids feel really uncomfortable about sitting in a class with someone constantly coughing but no one is getting sent home!

So with 32,770 schools in UK that’s 327,700 tests they had to supply to schools.

Many schools will not have used any of their original stock of 10 tests yet.

@Clavinova testing is all ticketyboo then?

This is daft -

7 September;
"Pupils at a Rotherham school have been sent home to self isolate after a dinner lady tested positive for Covid-19."

"In a letter to parents and carers, the school’s acting head teacher, said: “I am extremely sorry to have to inform you that a member of the catering team, who prepare and serve meals in the dining hall, has tested positive for Covid-19."

“Whilst there is a plastic screen between the kitchen staff and the children, they are still considered as having had direct contact with the member of staff who has tested positive."

“For this reason and following Department for Education Covid advice, I need to ask all the children who had a hot meal on Thursday to self-isolate for 14 days.”

"The school said it may be possible that all kitchen staff may have to self-isolate for 14 days.The decision is to be made today."

Surely, the kitchen staff were more at risk than the children?

After missing two days of school, the 36 children were cleared to return;

www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,pupils-cleared-to-return-to-school-where-dinnerlady-tested-positive-for-cor_36652.htm
www.thestar.co.uk/education/primary-school-sends-kids-home-self-isolate-after-dinner-lady-tests-positive-covid-19-2963168

Mumratheevergiving
Clavinova testing is all ticketyboo then?

I'm not saying testing is all ticketyboo, but if teachers are not aware their school can order additional test kits they are spreading disinformation;

DfE;

"Schools and FE providers should order additional test kits if they have run out or are running out of test kits."

"From 16 September, you can order additional tests kits online. Kits will be supplied in boxes of 10."

@Clavinova

So with 32,770 schools in UK that’s 327,700 tests they had to supply to schools.

Many schools will not have used any of their original stock of 10 tests yet.

They may not have done... but we have not been offered one by the school. We have been trying for 3 days to get a test.

Clavinova- DfE website; "From 16 September, you can order additional tests kits online. Kits will be supplied in boxes of 10." "You will be able to make a new order for test kits 21 days after you receive a delivery confirmation email telling you that your previous supply of test kits has been sent."

So 3 weeks after despatch of original 10 tests schools or FE colleges can order another box of 10. So it could be a month or longer until more received. That is a world beating service?

So yes a tiny primary with not many staff may be fine but for a large secondary with staff in the hundreds and pupils in the thousands 10 tests will not stretch far! Why not allocate more depending on size of educational establishment? Unless larger schools can order more? I haven't looked at the details.

Mumratheevergiving
So yes a tiny primary with not many staff may be fine but for a large secondary with staff in the hundreds and pupils in the thousands 10 tests will not stretch far!

The DfE are not expecting schools to give out tests to hundreds of staff or thousands of pupils - but 10 tests every 21 days or so for staff showing symptoms of coronavirus (and the odd pupil in exceptional circumstances, or if the school hasn't needed its stock of tests for staff) should be sufficient for most areas of the country at the moment;

"Mr Hancock gave the example of one school who sent a whole year group for tests, which is "not appropriate", he added."

"The free tests are available to people with symptoms of coronavirus - a fever, new and continuous cough or a loss or change in sense of taste or smell."

Who knows what is appropriate? Asking parents to isolate children and test if they show symptoms? What if they show one symptom? On another thread I'm on it's suggested that child should SI if they show ONE symptom e.g. child has a temperature, off school, order test. Well, I don't think that is appropriate. In the absence of good advice, schools have been left to make up their own rules. If one symptom is enough to trigger testing, then surely it follows that you have half a year group coughing and sneezing you test them all?

I don't agree of course. It would be absurd to instigate, be hugely expensive, and the result is effectively a second lockdown. I personally think all kids should be in school, old normal, with any highly vulnerable pupils/teachers/support staff on indefinite leave.

@Clavinova So back to the DFE page on this:

The government is making it as easy as possible to get a test through a wide range of routes that are locally accessible, fast and convenient.

Except tests are not locally accessible, fast or convenient and are now to be rationed:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736693/Matt-Hancock-reveals-plan-RATION-swabs-admits-testing-shambles-WEEKS.html

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/16/uk-coronavirus-news-latest-testing-shortage-could-lead-to-lockdown-by-default-says-teaching-union-head

In exceptional circumstances when you do not think a symptomatic child or staff member would be able to access testing by the usual routes, you should consider using one of the provided test kits to improve the chances that the individual will get tested.

So the problem is the usual routes e.g. drive in, walk in, postal option are overwhelmed creating extra demand for the very limited number of 10 tests that were issued to schools. Schools can't order more until 3 weeks after their last tests were despatched.

It doesn't appear they do distinguish between size of school and the number of tests supplied which seems pretty shortsighted.

Gavin Williamson addressing Parliament on schools Autumn re-opening 02/07/20:

We are also ensuring that testing is readily available, so that parents, teachers and students can return with confidence. All staff, pupils and their families will continue to have access to testing if they develop covid-19 symptoms.

By the start of the autumn term, we will provide all schools and colleges with a small number of home testing kits, which will be taken home by children or staff who develop symptoms while on site but who would struggle to access a testing centre. This is so that they can have a test quickly and get the results back quickly. All schools will have access to direct support and advice from their local Public Health England health protection team to deal with any cases that may occur. They will be advised on what steps need to be taken.

Stop blaming schools, (and similarly care homes) when the Government continue to cock the testing system up!

Now I must do some work while my children are thankfully in school.

Mumratheevergiving

Has your school used up its initial stock of 10 test kits?

but 10 tests every 21 days or so for staff showing symptoms of coronavirus

Clav that assumes that staff are isolating because they have symptoms and ignores the fact that many staff are isolating because someone in their household has symptoms and can’t get a test to test negative.

How sufficient are your ten tests looking now?

noblegiraffe

Has your school used up its stock of tests?

I don’t know, clav I’m a chalkface teacher. I do know we have staff off due to household members with symptoms and problems getting a test and I also know I have students off who have had tests but haven’t yet received results days later.

It’s very disruptive.

@Clavinova

Mumratheevergiving

Has your school used up its initial stock of 10 test kits?

The schools my children attend have not made me privvy to this information. But given that one of them is a school with over 2000 pupils and the number of staff needed to run a school that size I wouldn't be surprised. Especially as I know people locally who were struggling to get tests and being directed to all sorts of places around the country over the last week. Oh and a member of the SLT was off the week before awaiting results for a symptomatic family member.

@Clavinova do you care to comment on whether Gavin Williamson's commitment to ensuring testing is 'readily available' when schools reopened in the Autumn is being delivered:

We are also ensuring that testing is readily available, so that parents, teachers and students can return with confidence. All staff, pupils and their families will continue to have access to testing if they develop covid-19 symptoms.

So, apologies if I am being dim here. I have had my head in the sand for a few months now as I need to maintain my sanity. I've enforced a bit of a media blackout. That may may sound like a silly thing to do, but we lost a grandparent in May and whilst already sick, it was Covid that quickened her end by about a year.

So, if my DC has Covid symptoms I am to go get them tested, there are shortages etc. and then delays getting the results.

What if I say f*ck that. Can I got get one privately (where) and get it turned around quicker? I'd rather starve for a week than wait around for ages for a test and results whilst my DC is upset at being in and out of school.

I don't know the answer to your question but your story is a sad one and highlights that there actual human beings and experiences and emotions involved in this and some of the harsher posters forget this (or just lack empathy at all).

I hope you do get an answer to your Q and sorry for your loss.

ps you have my new favourite user name.

Schools have also basically been instructed not to sue those kits unless the family has no access to tests in any other way.

use

What if they show one symptom

All medical advice is one symptom = test

@Piggywaspushed so have the schools I am a governor. My take of it is is that you give tests to families who probably wouldn't get a test, and would probably need guidance in administering the test, or who would really struggle to get one (and the struggling doesn't mean because the system is rubbish but because they would struggle to access one even if tests were readily available)

@Unsure33

Here is a thought . Nhs England are responsible for this testing ( yes I know boris said he would take responsibility ) but in 2018 the 2 top officers were paid £19500 and £210000 per annum plus pensions and they are only responsible for a part of the nhs . Not running everything else as well .

Personally I will reserve my anger for them not doing the job they are paid for .

In 2015 about 50 nhs trust managers were paid way more than the pm.

And yes perhaps the trust system be rethought but it was actually not this government that formed the trusts .

It is not the NHS part of the testing system that is failing

It is the private sector contracts that have gone wrong. Believe me, they pay pretty well at serco and Deloitte s.

What if they show one symptom? On another thread I'm on it's suggested that child should SI if they show ONE symptom e.g. child has a temperature, off school, order test. Well, I don't think that is appropriate.

Not only is it appropriate...those are the Government Guidelines!!

On the screenshot...any of the following

@WokesFromHome yes you can get a private test, think they are about £150. The problem is you won't get the NHS negative confirmation which schools and some other businesses etc may ask for, I'm not sure they would accept a private test result.

My school asked me to send the test result to them when I sent my son back in.