The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

@chickenortheegg

It was inevitable that the return of schools would lead to higher demand for tests.

Just because Hancock said that too many symptomless people are getting tested, it doesn't mean that he's necessarily telling the truth - this is the man who accused the NHS of using too much ppe at the start of the crisis. Coughs and fevers are very common symptoms of other illnesses so I understand why a lot of negative results are due to people having a cold instead.

Exactly. I don't know how Hancock can know this. You have to say what symptoms you have when you ask for a test. Does he mean that people are lying? How could he possibly know? Nasty, lying piece of shit.

We have a situation where science says we are the maximum we can re open. Government response. Eat out incentive - open more so no they might have had more of a chance if they followed the science as they claim.

They also really should have looked at secondary differently a 250 pupil bubble isn't really a bubble is it.

@noblegiraffe

They're not wrong for opening the schools, they're wrong for opening the schools without the proper planning in place to keep them open.

It's frightening that there is 'no plan' nothing. Even if they did cobble together something on the back of a cigarette packet, it's too late for our exam years.

It reminds me of March when they knew what was coming, watched the hospitals fill and then realised they might need to do something. Doh!

It's like Laurel and Hardy, the Covid episode

I've been talking to an infection control nurse this evening.

It's far worse than we realise. Quite depressing really.

Numbers of cases in circulation are far higher than we realise and this was what happened in Feb.

Lack of testing is an issue.

Peak expected October and then again next feb and biggest risk factors of this age a) people's attitude and behaviours and b) lack of test and trace

[quote Littleposh]@noblegiraffe can you stick to the coronavirus forum please along with the other hundreds of these boring school doom threads[/quote]
Why come on and read a thread is a section you don't want it in and a topic you have no interest in.

Leave those of us who want to discuss it to do so

If - as the govt says - opening schools is a priority why not give schools the means to test? Give them a number of postal tests every week - say 20% of pupil total, topped up to that figure if any are unused from the week before, that they can send home with any pupils who develop symptoms, or make available to pupils ill at home to use.

"But Mr Hancock gave the example of one school who sent a whole year group for tests, which is "not appropriate", he added."

"He also described how some people who were going on holiday had sought to get tests."

"The free tests are available to people with symptoms of coronavirus - a fever, new and continuous cough or a loss or change in sense of taste or smell."

Even if there was social distancing in schools . Which I understand can not happen the children that I have seen are NOT socially distancing outside school , they are all huddling together in groups so the bubbles inside school would probably not work anyway . We had bubbles at work and then we found out. Members of different bubbles were meeting up outside work .kind of defeats the object .

So actually it’s only 3 days to go until release from quarantine without testing anyway.

World beating time scales...

I've had a child off in my class since Friday 4th September. He came back today after finally having a negative test. Obviously if he was ill on the first Friday back after 3 days, he hadn't caught it at school, but he'd been there for 3 days to spread it about... then he went off for 11 days. So, if he'd been positive, we'd all have done our 'quarantine' at school with 23 other people.

Presumably there would have been more of us with it in that time, but who knows.

the example of one school who sent a whole year group for tests, which is "not appropriate"

Yet Eton got everyone tested privately. Still using tests and factilities to process the tests. Presumably it's OK for Eton.

@Unsure33

Even if there was social distancing in schools . Which I understand can not happen the children that I have seen are NOT socially distancing outside school , they are all huddling together in groups so the bubbles inside school would probably not work anyway . We had bubbles at work and then we found out. Members of different bubbles were meeting up outside work .kind of defeats the object .

Absolutely!

The approach that some parents take to the mixing of children outside of school could prove to be a problem and definitely threatens the validity of 'bubbles'.

But then parents have also been told by the Government that their kids are at risk and don't transmit it: why would they have reason to act against what their Government has told them, especially if this means restricting their child?

Footballers get tested every week too, don't they. Is that appropriate?

Michael Gove wangled a test for his daughter so he didn't have to isolate at a time when nurses on Covid wards couldn't get one. That was definitely inappropriate as he could easily work from home. Or not work at all and the world would be a better place.

I work in a school. I'm wiping desks 5x a day, the children are washing their hands at least that many times a day, we're being really careful with bubbles not mixing and yet still we've got loads off with 'cold' symptoms, unable to get tests.

My parents are in their 80's, I have vulnerable family members. I'm really worried that these school threads are just a forerunner of what's to come once it gets back out into the community.

The government have fucked up with track and trace. It could still be contained if the testing worked but instead they're going to limp us forward week by week.

@itsgettingweird

I agree there are lots of preparations going on behind the scenes that people don’t know about . And also I know for a fact that they are still learning about the virus day by day especially the peculiarities in how antibodies vary from patient to patient in those who have had it .

This is why things keep changing . But Of course people want a black and white solution to suit their own political agenda .

I would think that it would be obvious that testing requirements would rise but I am not sure they knew that every tom dick and Harry seem to have a cold we are in September not normally the worst period for this type of illness . Perhaps it’s because everyone has been not mixing and. Building up immunity to coughs and colds ? Who knows . It was ok up to about a week ago .

I'm not sure how accurate this map of schools with cases is, but it's something.

I first saw it last week and there were 240 or so cases. Now just over 700.

www.boycottunsafeschools.co.uk/reported-covid-19-cases/school-cases-after-12-8-20/

@noblegiraffe
Footballers get tested every week too, don't they. Is that appropriate?

Actors too, now that TV filming has started up again.

Give them a number of postal tests every week - say 20% of pupil total, topped up to that figure if any are unused from the week before, that they can send home with any pupils who develop symptoms, or make available to pupils ill at home to use.

8.74 million pupils at school in England.

10% of this is 874,000, 20% somewhere around 1.7 million.

Given we have about 50,000 tests per day for the general population, including all school children, handing out at least 2.5x the entire weekly allocation - just for the smaller 10% - every week isn't going to work....

Anyone can buy a test privately can’t they?

Come on we all knew schools reopening meant cases would rise sharply and closures would happen. By some miracle my daughter's school is still open but I will be amazed if they make it to half term.
The government was under a lot of pressure to reopen the schools. Everyone was moaning about schools being shut and children's education suffering so there wasn't much choice.
The rise in cases would still be happening if schools were shut as everything else is reopening, the only difference is children would be suffering again.

They said children were not at risk of serious symptoms . And at one stage there was no evidence that they were passing it on to adults at a high rate .

Even in the first school that had cases was it not 17 teachers were positive to 3 students?

So that sounds like a staff room problem or something similar and that’s the problem with the media . They drop a bomb and.then disappear not actually interested in following up the facts . So people then jump to conclusions .

They concentrate on the negative . Not the fact that oxford hospital is extending a trial on another drug that’s proving to be quite effective after all who wants good news .?

Footballers get tested every week too, don't they. Is that appropriate?

I'm assuming that football clubs pay for private tests - Matt Hancock was referring to the free covid tests.

Eton, footballers, actors would all pay I’m not sure why they shouldn’t. I could too if I wanted to.