The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

@cantkeepawayforever

Just because they were allocated to care homes that does not mean that is where they were done .

The fact is 9800positive out of 1.3 million tests

That’s a huge amount of people using the tests who don’t have covid .

Like I said I don’t know the answer but the fact that the symptoms cross over with the common cold seems to be the problem .

@TitsOutForHarambe

I'm amazed at the testing situation in the UK. I'm in Australia and here anyone can get a test for any reason at any time - we have postal kits, drive thru test centres, covid clinics etc. So many ways for people to test.

It seems like a very basic requirement for this process. I really hope they manage to get some more test kits or you are going to have a whole load of problems that could have been avoided.

How many tests do you need a day in Aus?

So unfair on our kids
They have gone through so much. They were told their well being will be better. They must be so stressed with the illness. Anxiety of not passing disease to vulnerable parents or grandparents. This shambles is on the tories.

[quote Unsure33]@cantkeepawayforever

Just because they were allocated to care homes that does not mean that is where they were done .

The fact is 9800positive out of 1.3 million tests

That’s a huge amount of people using the tests who don’t have covid .

Like I said I don’t know the answer but the fact that the symptoms cross over with the common cold seems to be the problem .[/quote]
The numbers are quite something

@Unsure33

But that is, in part, the purpose of large-scale testing. We should be getting a lot of negative results. That's how we know that those people are safe to return to the community without the risk of increasing community infection levels or transmission rates.

Better safe than sorry

It was inevitable that the return of schools would lead to higher demand for tests.

Just because Hancock said that too many symptomless people are getting tested, it doesn't mean that he's necessarily telling the truth - this is the man who accused the NHS of using too much ppe at the start of the crisis. Coughs and fevers are very common symptoms of other illnesses so I understand why a lot of negative results are due to people having a cold instead.

I agree but They were in a no win situation.
If they’d have kept the schools shut they’d have been wrong. Now they’re wrong for opening the schools.

@TitsOutForHarambe

It was all ok until the schools went back tbh . They underestimated demand and allegedly a lot of people working in labs were university students who have now left . And yes it’s rubbish atm . Mainly because people can’t work when children are off .

The test centres are mainly empty round my area it’s the labs that can’t cope .

They're not wrong for opening the schools, they're wrong for opening the schools without the proper planning in place to keep them open.

I'm guessing that people in France are finding it easier to get a test than here then.

Clearly not;

31 August, Paris: "Waiting times of up to five hours were reported among “walk-ins”, but even those who try to book a test online may also need to wait 10 days or even two weeks before the earliest available appointment."

www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Five-hour-wait-for-Covid-tests-as-France-targets-1m-tests-nationwide-per-week

9 September:
"France's testing centres, or laboratoires (labos) are struggling to deal with the number of people who want to get tested. It's common to see long queues snaking around the streets as people, some potentially infected and contagious, queue for hours."

"Twitter is full of tales of the struggles to get a test in France as well as the main problem of having to wait several days for the result."

"Husband has a fever. Doctor says take the test. After calling all the labs in Rouen there is no appointment within 7 days, then plus five days for the results. Otherwise we can queue for two hours, but he's ill so no energy."

"Pop up test centres appeared at places like Paris Plages (the Paris city beaches) and at town halls with many of those queuing doing so simply because they wanted to take a test before departing on holiday or visiting grand parents."

www.thelocal.fr/20200909/covid-19-why-testing-one-million-people-a-week-is-giving-france-a-real-headache

Surely the whole point is that the only way to tell Covid apart from other viruses with similar symptoms is through testing?

We don't need testing for chicken pox, say, because it has a distinctive rash.

A whole load of negatives is success. IIRC, the threshold for 'concern' from the WHO is 3% positivity - ie 3 in 100 tests of those with symptoms that COULD be Covid actually being Covid. Higher than that, and the pandemic is becoming out of control again.

How many tests are there per day genuinely available for the general public - teachers, bus drivers, supermarket workers etc - to access? Rapid testing and release of the 97% or so who will be negative back to do their jobs is critical, as is isolating the 30% or less and tracking and tracing their contacts ruthlessly.

Sorry, 3% in final paragraph.

@aafwan

What the fuck has the government been doing all summer for us to be in this ridiculous situation now? They’re a disgrace. How the heck are working parents supposed to get through this winter when they’ve no idea from one day to the next whether they’ll be at home having to isolate while trying to get a test and wait for the all clear. The incompetence and stupidity and sheer hopelessness of this government is shocking.

this

@Iamnotthe1

I understand that but we are all paying for these tests . It just seems a shame that there is not a better indicator .

I know two people this week who had tests and said afterwards I knew it was just a cold .

And tbh they could have worked from home. The test in their case was not going to affect the severity if they had it . And was not really necessary .

I always knew cases would rise with schools opening - that was inevitable. But it’s just not working in the current state it’s in. It isn’t.

We have got a full year group isolating as one pupil in year 11 has a confirmed case. Two members of staff who teacher her are isolating because they have since developed coughs.

We have at least 15% of staff off with symptoms, or children with symptoms who cannot get tests, or have been waiting 3/4 days for the results.

We cannot get supply teachers to come in and cover those lessons, as they are unwilling or unavailable. As a result we have classes of 60 in the sports hall at times.

Some kids are so anxious they are having panic attacks when they take masks off to eat their lunch. Children who are from deprived areas, terrified to borrow a pen off me. Pupils scared to ask for help in lesson because they don’t want me to come close and talk to them (always done with a mask and a shield).

Then we have the flip side, kids with ASD and SEN who are distressed that staff and their friends are covering their faces, who are unable to wear masks themselves but scared to death of not doing so at the same time.

It’s a shit show, it really is. I want to be teaching, and I am happy to be back but something needs to change in order to improve this for pupils, and staff.

She’s shielding while all of us scumbags riffraffs catch covid. Expandable we are.

Dido Harding I mean! *

@millymollymoomoo

I didn’t vote as I don’t like the choices Schools need to be open with all children in. End of HTH

But how can they be when people have to isolate for 2 weeks because they can't get tests to get children back into school.

They do need to be in school. Therefore we need those 5 things actually functioning for it to happen.

I teach in vocational subject which is identified as high risk in an FE college. On return to my work area (simulated work environment) with 20 students there was no soap, hand sanitizer, mask or visor, gloves or any social distancing arranged. When I highlighted this to management they rolled their eyes and told me to start my session and it would be ordered. Within 3 days someone tested positive and we are all now in isolation.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

I agree but They were in a no win situation. If they’d have kept the schools shut they’d have been wrong. Now they’re wrong for opening the schools.

They are in the wrong because they have cocked up the planning.

Why is everything a surprise to them? They knew Results Days would happen - cocked that up. They knew schools would return - god knows how many versions we have of DfE documentation. And quelle surprise! Testing still not sorted.

Given the numbers of people we have in government organisations - you would have thought that at least one would be talented enough to lead on this.

One whole year group has been sent home due to a positive test. They’re getting remote teaching. Meanwhile, everyone else is being taught as normal, masks in communal areas but not in class. Kids are sharing food, drinks, equipment. Utterly pointless measures in place.

[quote Unsure33]@Iamnotthe1

I understand that but we are all paying for these tests . It just seems a shame that there is not a better indicator .

I know two people this week who had tests and said afterwards I knew it was just a cold .

And tbh they could have worked from home. The test in their case was not going to affect the severity if they had it . And was not really necessary .[/quote]
But whilst they can say that, they didn't actually know that it was just a cold. There is no way of knowing that without testing.

Even if there was the ability for someone to just self-isolate, they should still be tested as that's the only way that we will have any idea as to the actual level of Covid-19 in our communities and nationally. That data is needed to in order to make decisions about our Covid-19 response or to hold the Government to account when it continues to make decisions based upon political expediency rather than science.

Ultimately, this comes down to the Government failing to provide what it promised, lying to pretend that they had and then shifting blame to the general public rather than accepting it themselves.

Imagine getting a job with a company and then only being able to provide 50% of the work that you'd promised to do. That wouldn't be acceptable anywhere and we need to demand better from our elected officials.

Here’s our approx timeline:

Day 1 cold symptoms only - still goes to school days 1 and 2
Day 3 fever for an afternoon, stopped going to school
Day 5 test
Day 7 no sign of results

So actually it’s only 3 days to go until release from quarantine without testing anyway.

And test and trace, if the result is positive, will kick in on day 8-9 after first appearance of symptoms.

What use is that!!