The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

if I test positive I definitely won't have anyone isolate because of me. But the kids' networks are very very complex.

@Littleposh

I know, maybe I'll just start multiple threads on this topic and whine on each one individually. I don't know of a single school closure in my local area nor a single teacher off with confirmed or suspected C19 but you guys cling to your bad news story, I'll just go sift through several more threads banging on about this until I find something worth reading. Have a ball, guys

Like @theluckiest I live in Birmingham where the situationis dire. My children are both in GCSE years. It's well reported so perhaps you could research this first, or hide the thread if it annoys you.

@FlamingoorPigeon
How can the guidelines be effective if children and teachers cannot get a test?
Many schools have also had to impose their own covid secure rules after outbreaks when following the government guidance.
In a school in my area, the school has switched to no in person meetings, masks worn by staff in corridors, staff rooms and all public areas. This was after 7 staff tested positive. It seems that schools are finding that the government line that coronavirus will not be transmitted in schools was actually just wishful thinking. Yes, being in school is crucial for children but this only works if children and staff can be quickly tested when symptomatic.

I work in a school and go into more than one class daily. I don't feel unsafe. We've had children have tests, mostly because of the temperature they've all had due to rotten colds

Blended learning was the safest option and Bojo and Co know it, but listened to pressure groups about schools being back to normal whatever the cost while they sat and did nothing to put together a solid online learning plan. At this rate schools wil be closed before christmas.

YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

Looks like this second wave is potentially worst than initial wave half a year ago. I am in central London as already some children have dropped out of attending school this second week. Very hush hush as it national secret as to what's happening in school apart from daily emails out of the blue like today repeating latest NHS Covid advice and instructions to stay hone if child or any family members have any symptoms plus to tested and await results before returning after set isolation time frames. Only slight technical issue is that there are no NHS Covid tests as even private clinics have now sold out in London as everyone is now worried and rushing to get tested. The usual class WhatsApp group has gone on radio silent mode as normally messages drops in like confetti on the gossip rumor mill online. Not sure what's going on as not looking great for schools as hopefully teachers are well enough to continue as otherwise it's back to good old home schooling - not! No one is foolish enough to risk using shared public transportation as school gates makes a perfect advert for all the countless people carrier cargo family bicycles (as if in Amsterdam or Copenhagen etc) which used to be less easily spotted at school.

If 10% of schools are messy but the other 90% actually get some teaching done, is that ok? I think it’s better than March tbh. It’s not like they’re all wiped out (for now at least)....

The whole thing is a complete and utter shambles. The fact that key workers do not seem to even have priority access to testing is reminiscent of the peak of this crisis, back in March/April. You'd think the Government would've learnt from this! They've had ample time to contingency plan and see what other countries were doing with testing,
fully well knowing that children were returning to school in September, as well as the Autumn/Winter season being a well known time for coughs, cold, flu, etc.

There was always going to be an issue with how to differentiate between a cold, flu and Covid, which was evident that it would affect schools. Even back in the Spring/Summer, people suffering with the usual hayfever symptoms were given fearful glances. There is an issue with fear, but without routine mass/localised testing in place (which I can't personally see happening until after Christmas), there is no way that employers, schools, healthcare providers etc will be able to differentiate. And then there are of course the cross section of society that are asymptomatic, which seems to have not really been addressed at all in regards to testing...

I find it very scary that we don’t have an effective national testing system- massive avoidable social and economic impacts from this, as well as the obvious health risks.

YANBU. Shit show indeed.

If this government wasn't so incompetent I'd assume that the lack of tests was their fucked up way of keeping schools open - no positive test means bubble in tact. I wonder how many more schools would have burst bubbles if tests were available?

Pretty gobsmacked at some of the naysayers. Money and investment could have reduced the risk of bubbles bursting but education is such a low priority that they are going for herd immunity by stealth in the pupils instead and still pretending that only adults will catch and spread it amongst themselves even when the kids have adult sized bodies

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia my DH is a perfectly healthy teacher. Who is not teaching, as our youngest child has a stinking cold, snots, sneezing, coughing and a brief temperature last week. So he has to isolate for 14 days.

Multiply him by a million plus all across the country and no quick efficient testing... schools will close as they won’t have the staff to keep them open.

@Piggywaspushed

here the DfE had guidance which had a specific paragraph on closures. It actually said one case but it was at least clear. They withdrew the paragraph an hour later (surprise!) so now it says nothing.

that is because the DfE are tossers.

it should be a requirement that DfE workers actually have school experience so that they can gain some understanding of the impact of their twattery on schools.

Everyday, I'm so, so glad I didn't vote for this bunch of incompetent liars.

None of this shit show is on me.

Whilst I don't think that the govt has handled the crisis at all well, I think that there are also unreasonable expectations about what a govt ( and scientific testing facilities) can achieve. They tend to get the blame for everything (regardless of what govt it is). However, people ought to look at their own behaviours too. Are they bring sensible/taking tests unnecessarily? Are they sticking to the rules? Are they still social distancing? Are parents allowing their teenagers out in large groups at the park etc? This govt needs to be more transparent, prioritize resources and stop over promising. They need to be much more realistic and consistent with their messages. However, everyone needs to play their part. Most people I know are glad that their children are back at school. However, many do not believe that people should have been holidaying abroad or that pubs should have opened.

@KenDodd

Providing that you are following the social distancing guidance, washing your hands, wearing a mask etc of course.

We are getting teaching done. But there is no way pupils are 2, 1, meters away. There is now way teachers can remain 1 or 2 meters away..
It's an absolute farce...

@Arthersleep
I think that there are also unreasonable expectations about what a govt ( and scientific testing facilities) can achieve.

However this falls apart when you consider two things:

1. the Government set those expectations by telling us how many tests their system could manage and then blamed us when it started to fail at only half capacity,
2. other governments around the world have managed to set up and sustain highly effective testing systems. It's to the point now where Italy and Germany are completing our tests for us because our Government has failed so completely.

Arthur, I can't imagine we would have been safer under corbyn, probably much much worse.. I am sceptical of the competence of Sir p valance and esp jenny harries.

But there are so many small tweaks to make that would have eased this current situation... That's what is so frustrating.

My class is the only one in the school and I'm missing lots of kids who are unable to get tests so approx 20 kids in the whole school. All out other classes lasted 1.5 days.

[quote FlamingoorPigeon]@noblegiraffe people can't get tests because too many are going for them with snotty noses and sore throats not a temprature or cough or loss of smell or taste.
You need to think about going off with stress I think, you are clearly very stressed about all of this and you aren't doing yourself or your pupils any good.[/quote]
But that is because they won't be allowed back to work/school without a certificate saying they're infection-free.

I really don't understand why so many people on MN fail to understand that people aren't trying to get tested for the fun of it, or because they're raging hypochondriacs; it is because they literally have no choice. And without an adequate testing system, we are forcing people like teachers and nurses to take time off unnecessarily. Are you really happy with that, @FlamingoorPigeon? Would you be happy if it was you in their position?

Nobody should congratulate Gavin Williamson on this shit show.

As teachers were are doing our best to ensure handwashing, use of hand santiser, following one way systems, and mask-wearing at schools.

Even secondary aged pupils recognise that Covid does not stop at the school boundary. Pupils, especially sixth formers, don't really understand why there is a rule of six outside school but not inside the school. They point out the inconsistent messages by they are being told - after all we teach them to question sources and to look for bias. There is no magic invisible anti-covid wall around schools.

One of the other Year group bubbles burst today but they only have to isolate for 10 days. I am presuming because the poor boy had symptoms 4 days ago and has only just got the results.

I'm amazed at the testing situation in the UK. I'm in Australia and here anyone can get a test for any reason at any time - we have postal kits, drive thru test centres, covid clinics etc. So many ways for people to test.

It seems like a very basic requirement for this process. I really hope they manage to get some more test kits or you are going to have a whole load of problems that could have been avoided.

As teachers were are doing our best to ensure handwashing, use of hand santiser, following one way systems, and mask-wearing at schools

we are NOT were

obviously ....