The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

Yes, PHE were apparently very involved with the single case at my DC school. Whole year and whole bus (multiple years) all home for 2 weeks.

I read again today a government text saying it had to be 2 positive cases.

I am confused and pissed off.

It is also not a blanket policy and I don't know why people think it is.

I know of school with whole bubbles sent home, and schools with a few contacts.

@Hereinthesticks
Agree. They really need to review the fact that schools are sending home 200-300 pupils for 2 weeks if just one single pupil tests positive.

The figure of 1 is appropriate for 30 primary school pupils who spend all day together in the same room.
It is not appropriate for GCSE and A level pupils who may never sit in the same classroom as that infected person.

The schools have no say over who is sent home to isolate. The health team who takes control after a positive result does this. They send home anyone who has been identified as meeting the same 'close contact' criteria as is being applied to adults:

1. anyone who has had face to face contact within a metre or any physical contact with a positive case,
2. anyone who has been within 2 metres of a positive case for longer than 15 minutes.

Why should those aged 18 and under be subject to looser measures than the rest of our society simply because they come into close contact with more people than your average adult does?

BuT CoRbYN aNd tHe IrA

here the DfE had guidance which had a specific paragraph on closures. It actually said one case but it was at least clear. They withdrew the paragraph an hour later (surprise!) so now it says nothing.

And a ridiculous blanket policy for responding to a single case that means 200-300 pupils miss 2 weeks of education and can't even leave their house, no matter that they had no contact with the infected person at all.

Ok, but how do you know they had no contact?

A close contact is anyone you’ve had face-to-face contact with, within a metre. School pupils and staff have many of these - I don’t even know the names of some of the people I had conversations with (including “Please step back, you’re too close”) today.

@Iamnotthe1 - well, not all schools are doing that. Many are just sending home close contacts.

Anyway, this thread is about how the government have f'ed up.
Possibly we are disagreeing because PHE have f'ed up in this particular aspect.

@FatGirlShrinking It's almost like this Government make up sound bites and pretty messages without any substance in the hopes of baffling us for a little bit while they blunder around ineffectually throwing money at their friends and achieving nothing. You are too kind. That is exactly what is happening. It is painful in the extreme to realise it won't make the slightest bit of difference in the next election though...

@Iamnotthe1 English teacher here. That's an analogy

Many are just sending home close contacts

To do this, you need to be able to identify them. Whether this is possible will depend on individual school set-ups.

@Littleposh

I know, maybe I'll just start multiple threads on this topic and whine on each one individually. I don't know of a single school closure in my local area nor a single teacher off with confirmed or suspected C19 but you guys cling to your bad news story, I'll just go sift through several more threads banging on about this until I find something worth reading. Have a ball, guys

Well go and find something you do want to read then. Everyone else's experience isn't necessarily going to match yours.

@Piggywaspushed

It is NOT the school sending bubbles home . It is Public Health. Who probably think that is considerably easier and expedient then tracking the movements of one child amongst hundreds and hundreds of students.

Journey to school
Movements at lesson change/break time/lunch time
Form time
5 ish lessons with different students
possible clubs

It is not always feasible in a large school to track contacts. they are following the same protocols as any other setting.

Ok so it is a cases of doing the fastest thing when in reality not all 200 need to be home.

One case and all home as per pp is very sensitive and low threshold.

Schools should get each pupil to fill out symptoms in family on return. We have little data on spread.

One students and a few of their contacts being sent home arguably has greater impact on those few children than a whole bubble moving over to remote learning for two weeks with teacher time available to support it . Where a few kids are in isolation no teacher has time to devote to them.

@MarshaBradyo

The trouble is Iam you did it all correctly but 10,000 turned up because they were not homeless but had to get out for the day.

We have a shed load of negative tests and colds it seems.

Yeah but that would have been easily accommodated if the flat owners hadn't lied about the number of flats they had.

Having a cold is a recognised symptom of Covid-19, albeit a rare one, with some evidence to say that it's a more common symptom in children than the ones our Government has chosen to acknowledge.
Are people being overly cautious? Yes.
Did our Government say that our testing system had the capacity and capability to cope with that? Absolutely.
Are they now trying to shift the blame with falsified exaggerated stories of people getting tests when they shouldn't? Definitely.

@HipTightOnions School in question has mask wearing except when eating or in lessons.
Mostly I am v pissed off. How is my DC supposed to pass his A levels if someone doing a completely different set of options in a different tutor group tests positive. Repeat all autumn, winter, spring.
I know if you are teacher, you are just as important as a pupil. But really the pupils are back of the line here.
PHE had a teacher test positive in 2 different local schools. No-one sent home for 2 weeks from either school except teacher in question.

yesmarsha it really does need to be fast!!

@Littleposh your "contributions" to this thread are far more tedious than the existence of the thread itself. Just leave it be. I bet you were one of those nasty gloaters in December, coming on to poke people who were genuinely upset at the election results

As I said, my issue may well be with PHE.

But I still agree with this OP and most on this thread about the government not doing a sterling job.

@Letmegetthisrightasawoman
*@Iamnotthe1English teacher here. That's an analogy *

Apologies - I knew that when writing it (I've even been talking to my class about that today). Just wanted to feel included.

@overtherainbow - absolutely not true about boarding schools. We have to send for tests etc like everyone else and I’m in a very large school.

Totally ballsed up the exam season. Unbelievable that Gavin Williamson and the DfE can turn Results Days into a total bloody shambles. A mutant algorithm? They are a bunch of muppets who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery with or without SD and/or masks.

Granted the media team has spent a small fortune on adverts pleading with children to go back to school. However, it is the schools that sorted out hand santisers, hand washing stations, one way systems, and the bubbles not the effing government/ DfE. They just produced ever-changing checklists. They haven't offered more money to help school budgets. They are still dicking about with curriculum changes, changes to exam dates, no effing idea who is in or who is out.

Now they don't want bubbles to close - lets go with the herd immunity plan in schools. No idea what schools have covid cases ....

There are loads of them - what do they do all day?? They are certainly no helping schools or school leaders.

Butt here that is because a TEACHER isn't going around pawing other people, isn't huddling over a phone, isn't sat shoulder to shoulder with others.

[quote Hereinthesticks]@Iamnotthe1 - well, not all schools are doing that. Many are just sending home close contacts.[/quote]
Schools are not sending home anyone.

The health teams are sending home anyone identified as close contacts. In some settings, they may be able to limit that number based on the set-up. In most, they can't so they have no choice but to send the entire bubble.

This is why all the talk about bubbles as a protective measure was bullshit to begin with. Bubbles have only ever been about identifying who to send home.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@Letmegetthisrightasawoman
@Iamnotthe1English teacher here. That's an analogy

Apologies - I knew that when writing it (I've even been talking to my class about that today). Just wanted to feel included. [/quote]
High five

PHE had a teacher test positive in 2 different local schools. No-one sent home for 2 weeks from either school except teacher in question.

The theory is that staff members are at least 2m from pupils and each other at all times, so would not have any close contacts.

That’s the theory, anyway...