Any Sainsburys staff here?

[Shedbuilder]

Shameless abuse of AIBU, but looking for traffic.

If you work for Sainsburys, could you let me know what's happening to your changing and toilet facilities — for staff, not customers. Do you still have separate male and female loos and changing facilities or have they been merged to unisex in the name of diversity?

Any thoughts or info gratefully received.

I've just messaged two people who work in different stores in Liverpool. Both have separate toilets and changing rooms. Both people, when they are next in, are now going to enquire if that's going to change.

I've had dealings with USDAW and have seen impartiality and a degree of sexism too.

Unions are often run by the 'old boys', ancientgran whether you have seen it or not impartiality exists.

I've taken on many a valid discrimination claim where the union has said that there is no case to answer. It's nigh on criminal when the members pay subs to be told there is no case when there blatantly is one either because the rep is in the employer's pockets or because of the reps own world views.

If you work for the employer then you are less likely to see that side of things.

I’m female (relevant) and worked at Sainsbury’s until very very recently, does my answer count?
We had separate male and female toilets (and I sometimes used the mens toilet if the womens was engaged - shock, horror).

Course you're relevant, NameForOneQuestion. Thank you. That's really reassuring and contradicts some of the rumours I heard. I wonder why Sainsbury's didn't just say that stores had separate male and female facilities for staff instead of going on about diversity and the Equality Act. Good news. Means I can continue shopping there.

I'm sure lots of the women who are with the GMB had no idea how deeply sexist their union is until it was investigated. I speak as a former NUJ member who, back in the 90s, was told by a union rep to stop complaining because my boss gave his newly recruited best mate a promotion which should have gone to me. The union rep told me to shut up because the new guy had a wife and baby to support and I didn't, so the promotion was fair. No sexism there....

Because not allowing anyone who identifies as female is rejecting their gender identification.*

No it's not. Toilets are SEX segregated - not gender segregated. Sex is a protected characteristic, gender isn't.

People can identify how they want, but they should use the facilities for their own natal sex, because while you can "swap" gender, you CAN'T change sex. People use sex and gender as though they are synonyms, but they aren't!

I do not want to share my changing or toilet facilities with male-bodied adults, and nor do many other women. Forcing us to share these spaces is rejecting OUR need for privacy and safety.

I am curious. Was it their head office you contacted? They probably don't actually know the details of what the staff areas and backshop actually look like in all of their 100s of stores - which aren't identical buildings. Plus things change due to the needs of the store. The shop I worked at had 'on paper' a training room. Sometimes area office big wigs might have come in and used it but it eventually got used for storage. It actually ended up as the firework storage room at fireworks night time (the fire brigade had to approve the storage space and this was the one they said was most safe and appropriate).
We had a few times some area managers turn up to use the 'training room' to discover it was full of Christmas Trees or something !!
Your say they (Sainsbury's) were vague in their answers. Maybe they (at head office) simply don't know which stores have changing rooms for staff etc and quite frankly they don't have time to email each store manager to find out.

@unmarkedbythat

That's my take on it too, Running, but I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt in the hope this isn't another thinly veiled attempt to whip up a bit of trans related fury.

I suspect that is exactly what it is

I wonder why Sainsbury's didn't just say that stores had separate male and female facilities for staff instead of going on about diversity and the Equality Act.

Because if they said that and one store had mixed facilities (due to building design, plumbing issues etc.) then they'd be called a liar and there would have been petitions, boycotts and twitter hashtags.

What an odd statement. I am mid 40s and thus am 40+ years using ladies toilets. I have yet to hear a woman haemorrhaging and flooding in the next cubicle.

This. But also, what is 'flooding'

This. But also, what is 'flooding'

I used to have it when my endo was bad. I had to wear one of those thick nighttime pads during the day and would still occasionally bleed through to my trousers (I kept a spare pair of underwear and trousers in my locker) and at night I'd wear two nighttime pads and still have to lie on a thick towel.

I worked for them last year. Still male and female but if a person comes out as trans they can use the gender they identify with.

If you're mid-forties and have never even heard the term "flooding" you're doing well.
I had to leave a class recently when I could just tell this was happening. Never a problem before my late forties.
The cubicles, floor to ceiling or not, aren't likely to have sinks in them, which can lead to further embarrassment. But my bottom line - I don't want to use a toilet right next to a male body, no matter what.

Flooding- when you put a super tampon in, and it's basically 'full' after ten minutes. And then continues into your underwear/clothes/etc
If I get blood on my clothes, I like to rinse in cold water immediately so the stain doesn't set. No female colleague bats an eye if you come out of the cubicle with your trousers in your hand instead of on your legs.

To be fair Krakowdawn, I would bat an eye at that - but it would be with sympathy and understanding behind it

Sex is a protected characteristic, gender isn't.

Bit disingenuous when gender reassignment is a protected characteristics so trans men and women should be able to use the toilet of the gender they present as.

Does it fucking matter? We have unisex toilets at work, as im sure many small workplaces do. I don't think id appreciate urinals but meh

She's probably more concerned with the fact a man in a mixed sex changing room has recently been found guilty of taking pictures of female colleagues while they undress. But fuck them eh, as long as you can whinge about women being mean.

@Shedbuilder are you a reporter?

@hula008

Sex is a protected characteristic, gender isn't.

Bit disingenuous when gender reassignment is a protected characteristics so trans men and women should be able to use the toilet of the gender they present as.

Are toilets separated on the basis of gender identity now? I always thought it was biological sex. It's transphobic to say that trans people have to present as a different gender by the way. Next you'll be saying they need to pass. I think people happy enough with their unisex workplace toilet have ones that were designed to be unisex, have their own washbasin etc. It feels very different when it's a regular row of cubicles that have been opened up in this way.

@hula008

Sex is a protected characteristic, gender isn't.

Bit disingenuous when gender reassignment is a protected characteristics so trans men and women should be able to use the toilet of the gender they present as.

Gender reassignment is somewhat different to self-ID. Bur either way, why should a majority group (natal women who identify as female), be forced to be made uncomfortable and/or embarrassed in order to accommodate a minority group (natal men who identify as female and have had gender reassignment surgery).

When everyone has rights that trump everyone else's, the most vulnerable group ends up with no rights at all. In this instance it is natal women who identify as their birth sex.

Sex is not "assigned" - it is identified.

Sex cannot be changed.

Trans people have human rights, as we all do, and quite rightly - but that doesn't mean that they should be given precendece over a vulnerable group.

Why do we never seem to have the men's toilets reassigned? After all - there are F to M trans people, too. And men aren't physically vulnerable the way women are.

Transwomen are NOT a subset of women - they are a subset of men.

Biology can't be changed no matter how much pseudoscience is trotted out in support of it.

It's not "terfy" to point out facts.

You might be comfortable with self-ID'd genitally intact men sharing a toilet or a changing room with yourself or your young children - many of us are not.

@KrakowDawn

Flooding- when you put a super tampon in, and it's basically 'full' after ten minutes. And then continues into your underwear/clothes/etc If I get blood on my clothes, I like to rinse in cold water immediately so the stain doesn't set. No female colleague bats an eye if you come out of the cubicle with your trousers in your hand instead of on your legs.

Ah ok thanks for clearing it up. I'm not originally from the UK so the term is new to me.

Gender reassignment is somewhat different to self-ID. Bur either way, why should a majority group (natal women who identify as female), be forced to be made uncomfortable and/or embarrassed in order to accommodate a minority group (natal men who identify as female and have had gender reassignment surgery) Just wanted to make the point that not all natal are made to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed by using unisex toilets.