AIBU to think that actually, voters don't care if politicians lie, cheat, are racist or even break the law, we'll vote for them anyway?

[KenDodd]

And politicians have realised this.
As proven in recent years.

This actually isn't a go at Tory voters, I think if the roles were reversed other voters might act exactly the same and also not care about any of the above as long as their side won. I remember reading about an election in the US a while ago were one of the two candidates had just been arrested for child sex abuse, he didn't lose any support despite this. Some of the electorate were interviewed and said better him that the other guy. I can't remember which party was which but I don't think it matters, I don't think it would have made much difference if it was the other way around.

We should demand better, it's our fault politicians lie, cheat, are racist and break the law, we let them.

I should write to my MP and ask him quite simply -

"Will you vote for the country to break a international law and a treaty written and passed by this government (including yourself) less than ten months ago?"

I know he'll reply (actually he probably won't reply) with some waffling and vote it though. Super, super safe Tory seat.

The problem is, I don't think we've any leaders who deserve our vote.

I actually think that most people vote for the party will deliver what is best for the nation. They aren't swayed by personal issues such as healthcare, welfare, housing etc.

At the last GE, the overwhelming issue for the country was Brexit. Until that is resolved, all other issues come second.

Which meant that we had a choice between a party no-one trusted but who pledged to 'Get Brexit Done', Corbyn's lack of clear policy on anything relevant or a pointless protest vote.

@Gazelda

The problem is, I don't think we've any leaders who deserve our vote.

I actually think that most people vote for the party will deliver what is best for the nation. They aren't swayed by personal issues such as healthcare, welfare, housing etc.

At the last GE, the overwhelming issue for the country was Brexit. Until that is resolved, all other issues come second.

Which meant that we had a choice between a party no-one trusted but who pledged to 'Get Brexit Done', Corbyn's lack of clear policy on anything relevant or a pointless protest vote.

And Brexit won't be properly done for a decade so we may be stuck with the Tories at least until people start to realise this current bunch are total chancers and have no idea what they're doing let alone the capability to negotiate a decent deal.

I cannot fathom why people don't care that a scummy advisor is behind the policies being implemented in this country.

At the last GE, the overwhelming issue for the country was Brexit. Until that is resolved, all other issues come second.

The Tories, and Johnson personally, have lied non stop about Brexit and getting Brexit done, the lying was obvious, that was my whole point. As voters we could see 'get Brexit done' was a pack of lies (unless spectacularly thick) and we voted for them anyway. They knew they were lying, we knew they were lying, it didn't matter.

Definitely. Got to vote for someone though

I agree OP.

The arguments I've had with my in laws over Brexit have shown me that when someone has decided to believe that a certain party or issue, it is impossible to change their mind however much you show them rational evidence against their side of the argument.

I actually think that most people vote for the party will deliver what is best for the nation. They aren't swayed by personal issues such as healthcare, welfare, housing etc

That didn’t seem to be the case before the last election. MN was flooded with posts from people saying their only consideration was what was best for their family. That mainly seemed to amount to whichever party would tax them least.

Sad but true

*And Brexit won't be properly done for a decade so we may be stuck with the Tories at least until people start to realise this current bunch are total chancers and have no idea what they're doing let alone the capability to negotiate a decent deal.

I cannot fathom why people don't care that a scummy advisor is behind the policies being implemented in this country.*

But Corbyn et al had no idea or capability either! I don't think people who voted Tory don't care, but they didn't feel they had a credible alternative.

I'm a firm remainer btw, and protest voted at the GE.

It's all shittily depressing.

*“I know several lifelong Labour voters who reluctantly voted Tory in the last election (I'm a floating voter so less tribal). They couldn't vote Labour whilst a racist misogynist was leading it.”

“But they could vote for a conservative party with a racist misogynist leader??”*

This. I was slightly pissed last year when I reluctantly voted Labour and was accused by friends of voting for a racist when they voted for this charming specimen:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6%3famp

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-boris-johnson-articles-women-women-journalist-spectator-labour-a9221036.html%3famp

@Gazelda

*And Brexit won't be properly done for a decade so we may be stuck with the Tories at least until people start to realise this current bunch are total chancers and have no idea what they're doing let alone the capability to negotiate a decent deal.

I cannot fathom why people don't care that a scummy advisor is behind the policies being implemented in this country.*

But Corbyn et al had no idea or capability either! I don't think people who voted Tory don't care, but they didn't feel they had a credible alternative.

I'm a firm remainer btw, and protest voted at the GE.

It's all shittily depressing.

No, and actually I left the Labour party over Corbyn's behaviour over Brexit. He was just crap. I think I hoped someone sensible in the background would do something but the advisors he had were also awful.

I don't think Corbyn would have been as corrupt and have lied as much as the Tories are though. I think he would have negotiated a deal of some sort that didn't break international law nor through us off a cliff edge. But we won't ever know!

I was slightly pissed last year when I reluctantly voted Labour and was accused by friends of voting for a racist when they voted for this charming specimen

It's just astonishing isn't it!

I don't think Corbyn would have been as corrupt and have lied as much as the Tories are though. I think he would have negotiated a deal of some sort that didn't break international law nor through us off a cliff edge. But we won't ever know!

I agree.
I didn't vote for Corbyn either btw.

I voted labour under Blair until he lied about the existence of WMD to justify invasion of Iraq. I couldn’t vote for someone who lied.

However, I will never ever vote Tory. They are self-serving and this current bunch are the most dishonest, odious individuals I’ve ever come across. I grew up under Thatcher. Couldn’t stand her policies, but at least what you saw was what you got.

I'd rather have a racist PM who runs the country well than a liberal woke PC one who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. (I know, we've got a racist PM who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, I'm just saying that their egregious personality is irrelevant to their ability to do the job.)

@contrmary

I'd rather have a racist PM who runs the country well than a liberal woke PC one who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. (I know, we've got a racist PM who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, I'm just saying that their egregious personality is irrelevant to their ability to do the job.)

I’d prefer a PM with some integrity and a conscience. I’m a bit old fashioned.

I'm sure lots of BAME people are glad you take such a principled stance at their expense.

Who? Me?

@VinylDetective

Who? Me?

No sorry! The poster who said she'd rather a racist than a liberal woke PC PM.

@LadyofTheManners

Looks at current shitshow in parliament Says you are correct OP People are stupid. They vote for who Murdoch tells them to vote for. It's why I think there should be a minimum intelligence requirement to be able to vote. And S*n and Fail readers should be cancelled out for a start.

Take the tinfoil hat off.

Murdoch-owned papers only account for a circulation of 1.6 million (newspapers in general are down to circulations of less than 8 million in between them). 32 million voted in the 2019 general election so the idea that "everyone just votes for whoever Murdoch tells them to" is little more than a wacky conspiracy theory.

As for your rather ominous suggestion that eligibility to vote should be based on some measure of intelligence, I'd like to point out that those with few educational qualifications are traditionally more likely to vote Labour.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely
The solution is to always and very strongly hold those in power to account, also to constantly mitigate the tendency of power to 'want' to concentrate

Populist leaders will always draw support because they tell people what they want to hear, i.e. that things are simple straightforward we can have our cake and eat it, we are hardwired to want to vote for charismatic liars

Centrist here Starmer has more of a chance than his predecessor (obviously) but I think he could do it if he gets some good media and a team

I'd like to point out that those with few educational qualifications are traditionally more likely to vote Labour.

I believe research shows that's not true anymore. More highly educated people were less likely to vote Tory or Brexit. That was across all age groups as well.

@KenDodd

I'd like to point out that those with few educational qualifications are traditionally more likely to vote Labour.

I believe research shows that's not true anymore. More highly educated people were less likely to vote Tory or Brexit. That was across all age groups as well.

I’d question this too.