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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School acting unlawfully?

376 replies

emmapemma91 · 09/09/2020 15:58

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

OP posts:
AnneofbigCleeveage · 12/09/2020 00:07

@Sockwomble "Again it's not the concern of the parents of the child with sen. If someone tried that with me they would be told that the meeting is about my child".

Yes,i genuinely believe that is what you would say. Thankfully, schools care about all students under their care equally, so , your selfishness would have absolutely Zero impact on the other students at all. However, your selfishness could alienate all the other pupils and parents in the class.

AnneofbigCleeveage · 12/09/2020 00:10

@Ellie56
And no, IPSEA is not the local authority. It is an organisation dedicated to giving parents legally based advice on all things to do with SEND backed by a legal team qualified in education law.

That is what is said in my post. It is a charity and NOT the LEA. I made that clear in my post in response to you.

Sockwomble · 12/09/2020 00:27

"However, your selfishness could alienate all the other pupils and parents in the class."

How would other parents know what was said in a meeting- unless it was the sort of school that doesn't understand confidentiality. Meetings with a parent about a child with sen should be about that child only. Trying to imply a parent is being selfish is also another well known tactic particularly with local authority officers

Sockwomble · 12/09/2020 00:36

If I had spent my time in meetings apologising for my child having a disability and accepting whatever rubbish unlawful provision he was given, he wouldn't have access to the provision he has now.

Phucs · 12/09/2020 00:56

[quote emmapemma91]@Thisismytimetoshine my child’s previous school told me they’d first need the Ed psych to complete his assessment then carry out his recommendations For at least 2 terms?[/quote]
Other posters are quite right that legally, this isn’t needed.

But, EP reports, and EHCPs, are SO much better for there having been a cycle of assess, plan, do, review. Through this, parents and schools learn about the child’s response to intervention. They get to try out some strategies and see if they are useful for the child. They see how well the child is working torwards outcomes.

No, legally it’s not needed. But practically it makes a huge amount of difference.

happystone · 12/09/2020 01:02

Let her settle in.it doesn’t matter how long she is in for.is she upsetting the whole class.if they can’t manage this will help you echo.

Boulshired · 12/09/2020 07:05

I cannot believe how difficult people are making this. Every child matters and Every child has a right to an Education. It is up to the school to ensure that this is implemented. If the school cannot preform its duty then the local authority needs to be informed. The fact that dedicated charities exist for children with SEN is the awful consequence that too many children are left in limbo by schools and LAs acting unlawful. The lesson most parents with disabled and children with SEN learn is that they are their child’s only advocate. Those making the decisions are mostly governed by resources, this is not my problem, I want nothing more or less than what my child is legally entitled to. In this case a full time education.

Underhisi · 12/09/2020 07:33

Parents are regularly told that they are "wanting too much" or similar when all they want is for their child to have a the full time suitable education that other children have. The other problem with leaving it all to schools is that many do not know the law and believe LA policies are law or will not go against the LA 'rules' whereas parents can without repercussions.

Apply for an EHCP now. The school will spend months 'collecting evidence' whilst at the same time ringing you up after an hour to collect her. There is enough evidence that she meets the criteria for assessment and outside involvement such ed psych will be prioritised for those undergoing assessment.

BKCRMP · 12/09/2020 08:26

So my child is nearly 6 and has an EHCP which highlights her complex needs. She has a dedicated 1-1 who is glued to her to ensure she can't hurt another child or escape. Sometimes there is a high level of distress and shouting/screaming. She hit her 1-1 yesterday. She is entitled to a full time education.

Ideally she would be in a specialist school. There are no specialist schools within 90 minute commute suitable so her school got told they can have whatever they need to meet need but it still isn't a suitable setting.

I don't care about the other 29 kids, I care about mine. Yes sometimes the other kids have their lessons disrupted or at worse have been moved out of the room but that's because my child isn't in the right setting which is far more detrimental to her than the other children.

There is more options available when she starts year 3 but that's two years away. Until then school and I will continue to work together to support her.

She absolutely has the right to be there and to be fully included and supported just like the other 29 children.

Original poster
emmapemma91 · 12/09/2020 08:35

Thank you. I have applied for a EHCP for her, and the EP has observed her at her previous school before lockdown and has already been contacted to see her at her new school, so that should help. Have agreed to TAF meetings and school are chasing up the CYPS referral. Will email the school Monday and ask for paperwork outlining how they plan to reintegrate her and what support they have in place. Thank you all for your help and views Smile

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 12/09/2020 09:58

I don't care about the other 29 kids, I care about mine.
Exactly like the parents of the other 29 children.

Porridgeoat · 12/09/2020 10:12

Your child is entitled to equal access to education

BKCRMP · 12/09/2020 10:26

@Thisismytimetoshine my child is no concern of theirs. It's nothing to do with them.

Thisismytimetoshine · 12/09/2020 10:37

That is true. But the other children have "needs" of varying degrees also, and their parents will advocate for them just as fiercely if they're being negatively impacted. Why wouldn't they?

Iamnotthe1 · 12/09/2020 10:43

@Underhisi
The school will spend months 'collecting evidence' whilst at the same time ringing you up after an hour to collect her.

Which also, in and of itself, is evidence of her difficulties in accessing mainstream education. That's why it needs proper documentation.

@emmapemma91
The main thing that would concern me here is that the school are already saying that they are unable to meet her needs. This may remain the case even after an EHCP is granted and it may well prompt or force a more from this school and into one with stronger proven provision for children who share similar barriers as your DD. That doesn't mean not mainstream but different schools do have differing levels of expertise and experience.

windyautumn · 12/09/2020 10:44

@Thisismytimetoshine

I don't care about the other 29 kids, I care about mine. Exactly like the parents of the other 29 children.
Most children's parents care even less about the SEN children in the class (unless they are quiet in the corner) so fairs fair.

The school are the only people who have to care about balancing but also meeting everyone's needs - sending a child home after an hour without a contract of why, sends a pretty clear message as to whose needs they are prioritising and show they have no qualms about acting unlawfully when it comes to the rights of SEN children.

My child's school was pretty crap at meeting needs but the one thing they never did was send home as they knew they would be hauled over the coals by the LEA and they were very explicit about that wasn't an option. A formal contracted 4 week reduced timetable was ok and fixed term exclusions gained all the evidence everyone needed to get an EHCP and a place at a specialist school where he is now thriving.

Children with SEN only display these behaviours when the needs aren't being met. Sending home and telling parents to 'wait by the phone' is such a cop out - i'd love to see them do that for all children in the class and send them home when they struggled with maths or cried on the playground etc. I bet other parents wouldn't be so happy about it then.

BKCRMP · 12/09/2020 11:14

@thisismytimetoshine perhaps parents should focus their energy more on teaching their children to be understanding of others being different. Why should a child with additional needs not be able to be in a class because they can't sit there quietly? It's a fact of life that people are different. My DD is removed from the classroom to the sensory/break out rooms fairly quickly when she gets upset so disruption is limited but she absolutely has the right to be there as much as possible and as standard.

A parent at my DDs school complained that she has a TA and that all 30 should share her. That TA wouldn't be there without my daughter's funding. If she was shared the disruption caused by DD would be tenfold. Far too many parents are never happy and think everything is unfair. The barriers posed by their child having my DD in their class is nothing compared to The barriers my DD faces day in day out.

Haenow · 12/09/2020 13:36

I don’t know why the OP should be expected to consider other children in this difficult scenario, that’s the schools responsibility, not hers. It’s hard enough for OP without worrying about other kids. I’m sure she’s not blindly unaware of other children but it’s not her worry. If her daughter’s needs are met then it would naturally reduce the impact on the rest of the class anyway.

Thisismytimetoshine · 12/09/2020 13:52

She doesn't need to worry about them; just understand that their needs must be met as well as her child's.

Original poster
emmapemma91 · 12/09/2020 13:59

@Thisismytimetoshine can I ask what your experience with SEN children are? Do you have child/ren with SEN?

OP posts:
Buttybach · 12/09/2020 14:01

Is she in mainstream or SEN provision school

Original poster
emmapemma91 · 12/09/2020 14:05

@Buttybach mainstream

OP posts:
Pieceofpurplesky · 12/09/2020 14:10

I am glad things seem to be going in a better direction OP. It is a situation that is made more difficult with COVID due to the rules around contact. I teach secondary and have a boy with ADHD who cannot stay in one place. I love teaching him and think I deal with him well (never sanctioning him for his inability to stay still and his love of sitting on the floor etc, as some staff do). Lockdown is extra stressful with him as he can't keep his distance and I can't go and sit with him to calm him down.
Work with the school OP and get the best support for your DC

Sockwomble · 12/09/2020 14:30

"She doesn't need to worry about them; just understand that their needs must be met as well as her child's."

If someone knows that their child has a right to have their needs met they will know it is true for all children. How those other children's needs are met is not their concern.

Haenow · 12/09/2020 14:59

@Thisismytimetoshine

She doesn't need to worry about them; just understand that their needs must be met as well as her child's.
Nope, still her not her problem. The school needs to understand their needs must be met. Also, as I said, if the little girl’s needs are met, then the class’ needs will also be met because she’ll be calm and settled.