To think that degrees mean less now than they did 20/30 years ago?

[SL11]

I got my degree 15 years ago from a former poly and got a high 1st. It was modular based and at the time I dont believe any credits were doubled or the lowest mark credits dropped or something like seems to happen a bit now. I know a bit as DD is soon to start Uni.
AiBU to think my degree is unofficially better than those gained in similar ranked Uni's in recent years? And on the flipside those gained by people in the 70s when 3 years worth of work was assessed in 12 exams and your final result was a average of those marks are unofficially better than mine?

Think employers think of this?

...AND my whole point was about grade devaluation and not ranking!

No, sorry, degrees from former polys weren’t considered up to much 20 years ago.

I don’t agree, just commenting.

louiseNW Engineering degrees from ex polys back in 1992 were considered 'better' for many roles. Higher standards, more practical, closer links with industry, the sandwich (year out) gave graduates a massive head start.
How do I know? The cohort from Cambridge Civil Engineering Dept were made redundant when the recession hit.

My DSD’s (arts non-vocational) uni course gave our 80% firsts last year and the rest were 2:1s. So they literally didn’t any 2:2s or thirds!

So YADNBU

These threads annoy me. I just graduated with a first and I'm bloody proud of it considering it was whilst I was working fulltime in a very demanding job!
I do get that there are more firsts being awarded, I accept that some unis are inflating grades but I also think it is as a result of increased pressure on students to work our arses off for a good classification to be in with a chance of a good career!
Ultimately, the job market has became far more competitive and promotions etc are usually given to older staff members who may not be as qualified but managed to get a foot in the door young enough to gain decades of experience while my generation now need a masters for an entry level job

It wasnt bitchy, it was more ironic as thats the general consensus on here-everyone wants their kid at an RG
It was you wanting validation your achievement was superior to someone doing the same now
I made reference to the type of university you attended which is a valid point related to the question you asked.
You have a lot to be proud of but it doesnt make you better than anyone else. Similarly, my courses were not seen as robust as say Oxbridge or STEM. So someone with a 1st from Cambridge or a physics degree could challenge me. Its all relative to what you do and where

I find it really sad that 'former polys' are still regarded as 'lesser' universities.
Traditionally, polytechnics taught relevant degrees, like in many countries today, like civil engineering, architecture, electrical engineering etc...whereas universities taught academic subjects like literature, history and foreign languages.
There was some kind of snobbery , back in the day, that skilled degrees were 'blue collar' and polys resented being looked down on.

Strangely enough, my mum( Polish) told me a wonderful anecdote .

A student walks down the steps after graduating from his/her university and a man at the bottom of the steps says " Congratulations! What's your degree?" The graduate answers " History."
The man looks behind him at a long row of doors and points to one. He says " you can go through that door."

Then another graduate walks down the steps from his polytechnic and the man says, " Congratulations! What's your degree in?"
The student replies " engineering."

The man then says, "Which door would you like to walk through?"

I really believe that polytechnics should seize the day, now, and stop feeling second best.

@Showandtell1

It wasnt bitchy, it was more ironic as thats the general consensus on here-everyone wants their kid at an RG It was you wanting validation your achievement was superior to someone doing the same now I made reference to the type of university you attended which is a valid point related to the question you asked. You have a lot to be proud of but it doesnt make you better than anyone else. Similarly, my courses were not seen as robust as say Oxbridge or STEM. So someone with a 1st from Cambridge or a physics degree could challenge me. Its all relative to what you do and where

It isn't though. I was talking about grade inflation and classification jiggery pokery that means some of the lower credits are dropped when working out final marks meaning that factually someone who has the same degree as me now with the exact same mark didn't actually work as hard. I know this goes on - I know people that work in Universities where it is done. I didnt ever mention the ranking of any Universities in my statement so you essentially felt it was necessary to undermine my award by saying yours is better in order to point out to me that I was devaluing other people's awards.

Having said what I've said, it's very interesting to note how many students and young people are now feeling forced into doing a Master's these days in order to stand a bit above .

I’m not sure it works like that, no. I think even with lots of people getting degrees today a 2.1 from Cambridge in 2020 will still be seen as more prestigious than a degree from a former poly 20 years ago- sorry OP

As a tangent, I was quite shocked recently when I looked up my old course to see what the entry requirements are these days - no way would I have got in nowadays with my A level results, which were good enough at the time to get onto a competitive course

I bet you would because there’s massive grade inflation in A levels too. Nobody will ever convince me that kids today are exponentially brighter than previous generations.

Obviously a lot hinges to on your sector and area of work.

*too! Tired, sorry

Absolutely agree OP. There are far more students now, so obviously the overall standard can't be as high, and firsts are common. Back in my day you had to be both gifted and a hard worker to get a first.

Same for school exams. I went to a grammar school, and even so only a handful of girls got straight As at O level or A Level. Now it's commonplace.

@MentalLockdown

louiseNW Engineering degrees from ex polys back in 1992 were considered 'better' for many roles. Higher standards, more practical, closer links with industry, the sandwich (year out) gave graduates a massive head start. How do I know? The cohort from Cambridge Civil Engineering Dept were made redundant when the recession hit.

What I find interesting is, if polytechnics were the best at vocational degrees such as engineering etc how come they are dominated by RG universities in the league tables and in industry for those very same subjects? you’d expect the yrs of expertise they’ve had in running those courses would put them ahead of the older universities who are essential late adoptees.

I always wonder if recruiters keep up with uni rankings and feedbacks or if it's simply "Well, I heard of this one, yeah. Good" or "RG. Yeah. Good".

I went to a RG university. Both my kids have gone to mid ranking universities. I don’t see a difference in the standard of work required.

Kids aren’t brighter now, but they do have a greater level of academic competence. Computers have made it much less time consuming to perform a comprehensive literature review or analyse data. As a consequence students spend more time on the intellectually demanding parts of a degree and less time on the donkey work.

Added to which, the enormous amount of scientific and technological development that has occurred over the last thirty years means that the understanding someone getting a science degree now has is far in advance of what would have been required in the past.

Stripes, I don't know, I sometimes think that computers have taken away the donkey work, but have also removed the need for critical thinking because information is just 'there' - it doesn't have to be discovered, researched, analysed.

Fairly sure I remember people saying this 20 years ago.

Can I ask them am I deluding myself with my qualifications?

I missed quite a bit of school due to illness. It was a selective, girls school with very high standards but also religious. We lost our sixth form as I was due to start A’level a so I went to a very liberal further Ed college. Some more illness. I got mediocre grades and went to a polytechnic. I loved my subject (English) and constantly kept myself challenged with material and reading as I knew the standard I was capable of from my secondary school and that the further Ed and poly were not as demanding as I could intellectually deal with (but at the time, physically about right). I was first in family to go and worked throughout and spent a year after degree working then was accepted at University of Oxford for PGCE. This was a different environment for me and for the first time in my life I felt solid ground under my feet and I worked so hard and loved it. I was conscious there might be gaps/holes in my learning but the biggest thing I noticed was the expectation I had of myself. I really learned an incredible amount, personally and academically from being, for the first time in an environment that supported you with resources (my church school was minimal) and we had to pay for everything at college and I was on such a tight budget.

Am I a fraud to think that I am right to own my place in that space? I attend the alumni events and have had some query the PGCE validity but I am more than able to discuss ideas as I genuinely think this way.

Did O’levels not GCSEs by the way - terminal exams (same for A’levels and degree).

I teach and have worked as an assistant examiner. To my mind, there is little comparison between the old O’levels and GCSEs and the exam based A’level and the newer, modular ones.

I think having a degree thirty years ago was more valuable, whatever the institution, because only about 10-15% of people went to university. Most people didn't even do A levels, and of those that did, a fair few left school after them. There were careers you could get into with 5 O levels, or 2 A levels, that you'd need to have a degree for now, because it's expected that anyone reasonably intelligent will have been to university.

"Well, I heard of this one, yeah. Good"

I chose my uni partly because if I moved back to Italy employers would have heard of 'London'

I am also doing a masters in AI and I would question a lot of assumptions about degrees being better now. Someone upthread said that students don’t need to research as much due to the easier access and distribution of material. That is true but neither are they honing their critical faculties in the way we had to. I am surprised at the variety of quality in material I see in the papers I read but what is really standing out to me is the lack of intellectual space for critical thought and crucially, development. We have, in my mind replaced this with what will dangerously lead to dogma if we are not careful. I also think a lot of students have benefitted from having resource material that has one the work for them and therefore have no basis to question it, no engagement critically and no aptitude for reasoning and no interest in enquiry. I am a bit shocked, tbh.

@diplodocusinermine

Exactly