To think that degrees mean less now than they did 20/30 years ago?

[SL11]

I got my degree 15 years ago from a former poly and got a high 1st. It was modular based and at the time I dont believe any credits were doubled or the lowest mark credits dropped or something like seems to happen a bit now. I know a bit as DD is soon to start Uni.
AiBU to think my degree is unofficially better than those gained in similar ranked Uni's in recent years? And on the flipside those gained by people in the 70s when 3 years worth of work was assessed in 12 exams and your final result was a average of those marks are unofficially better than mine?

Think employers think of this?

@Plussizejumpsuit

Did polys exist 15 years ago? I started uni (under grad) around 15 years ago and although it feels like a long time ago I thought they were all just universities?

It's a former poly so not Russell Group.

Plus the additional thought that in the sciences, such as my subject biology, the subject is so consistently changing and developing that the knowledge from a degree is useless practically a decade later. So those graduating biology today will know a lot more about it than I do.

No. Just because something was rarer years ago doesn’t mean it’s better op.

However the actual uni and the type of degree is what counts.

Former polys have lower entry requirements because the degree is in essence easier, students are helped more. A Russell group for example has higher entrance requirements because the degree is in essence harder, the students are less spoon fed so need to be more capable. The degree contents also vary differently.

So no your degree is not better than someone’s today.

Yes, I think you are basically right in that more people are getting them, so a Bachelor's certainly doesn't have the cachet it would have done in, say, the late 80s / early 90s.

Whether they are harder to obtain now, I have no idea. I think it's just easier / more expected that people go to uni now.

When I left school, many moons ago, only the brightest kids went to Uni. Out of my year group of 300 only 2 went to Uni. (I didn’t).

Now most school leavers head off to Uni. Not all stick the course.

I agree that degrees were worth more years ago, as those who had one were seen as more intelligent than most. Now most 21year olds have a degree so they are not held in such high esteem.

It’s not a question of better @Bluntness100. It’s a question of value. Obviously something has greater value when very few people have it than when half the population’s got it.

@Sparklfairy

Yes. Degrees have never cost so much but been worth so little.

Agree and I'm a secondary teacher.

I didn't do a first degree, but now have an MSc. Around the time I left school, around 7% school leavers did degrees, probably around 1% or less from my grotty comp.
If 50% school leavers now go on to university, clearly degrees are less of a rarity than they used to be - however I used to regularly apply for, and get, jobs that stated a degree was a prerequisite; I suspect that wouldn't happen these days. Additionally there's probably a lot more roles that are stated as requiring a degree.

I work with universities now and tbh the distinction between Russell group and former poly means nothing in terms of quality of education. People will tell you it does but what they actually mean is it was harder to get into so they want to feel better. I did my undergraduate at a former poly and would never have dreamed of saying that. It's such bullshit classism. As if my degree is worth less and by calling it a former poly I'm playing part in that.
In my experience the newer universities tend have way better links with industry. The Russel group and ones with higher research score tend to be good at post grad level but education wise all much of a muchness. The difference is the prestige and people you meet going to a Russel group.
I also think courses are better quality and better thought out than 15 years ago.

@CitizenFame

Fuck off, for future reference.

I sort of agree with you OP. I don’t know if degrees 20 years ago were better but I certainly agree they mean less more now but I also think that’s down to the state of the job market rather than the quality has declined.

I agree with this^^.

I don't think a degree from a poly was ever considered all that great? But some former polytechnics have gone on to become good universities. For example, university of bath. Used to be a poly, now a very well respected university.

So, on balance, I think YABU.

But that's not to say I wouldn't think twice about going to university if I was going now. At least, not to a brick one. The fees are outrageously expensive and then rent and living costs on top. No chance, unless it was medicine etc.

I'm about to do a second degree with OU, something I wouldn't have considered before, when I went as a school leaver. But now, it makes a lot more sense to do it part time and from home. Especially for me, as I already have a degree and also have a mortgage and dcs, but even if I was doing it straight from school, I now don't see the appeal in going to university. It used to be relatively cheap to live in university cities and the fees weren't much at all. It's a huge investment and you would want to be sure you'd see a decent return for that.

*Now it's a huge investment

There has been grade inflation. Many jobs now require a degree where in the past you would have been able to enter the role with A levels straight out of school and perform it just as well. People with degrees are also now earning very average salaries in quite junior roles. So from that perspective a degree is certainly worth less than it would have been 40 years ago.

Start the Week

This was an interesting listen - most of the contributors seem to think we have reached 'peak uni'.

I agree, I got my first degree 30 years ago, I got a 2:2, I did little work but if I did some I think I would have got a 2:1, firsts were very rare. I recently did a post graduate diploma, I got a distinction, I do not believe for a second I would have got that sort of mark 25 plus years ago ( and frankly it didn't really deserve it)

@BigBlondeBimbo University of Bath has never been a polytechnic. It’s a plate glass university which received its charter to be a university in 1963 along side Warwick, York etc.

The economics can be complex. Would it be a Veblen or Giffen? The price has risen and prevalence has increased and careers previously open to A-levels now require a degree in reality.

There has been grade inflation too.

Some of the lifetime uplift in earnings statements seem to be predicated on situations where fewer had degrees.

Yes. Simple supply & demand.

When only 10% of people had a degree, they were sought after by employers as the best educated and brightest. Now it's 45%, obviously the competition to recruit by employers is much less.

That's not to say a double first from Cambridge or Durham is any less valued now than it was 30 or 40 years ago.

It depends what you are using the degree to measure. If knowledge acquired, there's no reason why a degree holder today should have been taught less than someone who did their degree decades ago. But if you are using a degree simply to pick someone who is very bright compared with their peers, then that's less easy when 50% have degrees than when only 2% did.

Of course, when only 2% had a degree, there was an awful amount of luck or "social capital" in whether a bright person got a chance, just as nowadays there's a lot of luck or social capital involved in whether you get your degree from a former poly or from a RG uni.

Class of degree was a different matter. 40 years ago most students on my course got a 2.2, only 2 or 3 in each year group got a first. So this was a tiny percentage of the tiny percentage who went to uni, rather than 25% or more of the nearly 50% who go to uni nowadays - or, to put it another way, if 25% get a first (a figure I've seen), then the percentage of students getting first now is more than twice the number of all students going to uni when I was there.

[quote Shimy]@BigBlondeBimbo University of Bath has never been a polytechnic. It’s a plate glass university which received its charter to be a university in 1963 along side Warwick, York etc.[/quote]
Ah, I stand corrected. I have never heard of a plate glass university tbh!

OP I agree with you. As someone with a degree from a Russell Group university over 30 years ago.

There is definitely a trend in grade inflation and that's fine (well it's not really) if it is solely to ensure students can meet the requirements of future employers. However that's what I mean about the age of degrees technically making them more worthwhile. 30 years ago most people didn't have one and employers didn't necessarily need one for the role, now as a PP has posted the same role that used to need 5 GCSEs and 3 A Levels requires a degree but the it's the same role and the money isn't any better.

Ah, I stand corrected. I have never heard of a plate glass university tbh!

Embarrassing, as apparently I graduated from one .

LOL I hope you have one of those ‘new’ degrees OP Talks of @User3627290**

Sorry to disappoint, but my first two degrees were a first class degree and masters with distinction obtained nearly 20 years ago from a prestigious RG university, and my second two are postgrad qualifications with distinction from a different RG

And I’m not a troll. In fact I’m rarely one to pick on posters for their grammar, but I think that if OP is going to disparage the degrees of today, they ought to at least make sure the evidence of their allegedly superior education is beyond reproach.

It is very interesting - I wouldn’t say a degree is easier now (having witnessed my DC complete theirs) but it definitely holds a different level of value on the job market now (ie - essential for many non-graduate level jobs).

Of my DD’s cohort, almost all her uni pals have gone on to do either a professional postgrad qualification or a master’s to get a job. Many of DD’s older colleagues don’t have a degree while she has a master’s - it doesn’t make her any more qualified for her job than her colleagues, but nowadays it’s what you need in many cases.

As an aside, I’m in the “2% of the population went to uni” cohort and I was one of only a handful of students from my school to go to sixth form, let alone university. I wouldn’t say my degree marks me out as any brighter than many of my peers, like a pp said it was largely down to luck (and even then I had limited options available to me given my background).

1st class degree from an RG univeristy 25 years ago here .

Hard work to get it annoying there has been so much grade inflation. Universities don't give many 2:2s as a 2:1 is many employers cut off and students are peed off paying 27 000 for a degree that is effectively not a pass.