To think nursery need to do better?

[Ponchy]

Dropped off DS at 8:30am. Did the fucking happy dance of joy to have all the kids out of the house for the first time in 6 months. Made it to 9am and they told me I had to come get him because he had done a poo and hadn't gotten his trousers all the way down so half of it landed in his trousers. They left him sitting on the loo while I drove back there and cleaned him up. When I got there they had a dither because I wasn't suppose to come in the building but I can't clean him up if I can't get in can I!? So home we went.

Sorry to clarify, it's not illegal if your child doesn't have a known continence issue.

Does your child have a continence problem? @Ponchy

Young England nurseries in SW1 has this policy! Must be potty trained by 3 - no pressure 🙄

Shocking, I work in a primary school but we have an F1 stage, so the children in my class are 3 when they start.
We wouldn't hesitate to help a child in the same situation and always have a decent supply of gloves, wipes, clean clothes etc
All you'd get from me, is a bag discreetly being passed to you at the end of the day and a brief explanation of what occurred!
They definitely need to do better, he's 3!

It's irrelevant if it's legal, nobody in my class wears pull ups but many have accidents!

Does your child have a continence problem? @Ponchy**
More likely he’s just a 3yr old who had an accident- ffs

Can I just point out that it's actually illegal in the uk to refuse to take a child if they are not potty trained...

It IS illegal!!! Not being toilet trained is in itself considered a disability:

My child is still in nappies. Can a school deny their admission?

No they can't. The Equality Act 20100* states that schools must not discriminate against or disadvantage disabled children or those with special educational needs. A delay in achieving continence - or not being toilet trained - is considered a disability. It is therefore not acceptable for a school to refuse or delay admission to children who are not yet continent.

This website are great:
www.eric.org.uk/help-at-school-faqs

The Equality Act of 2010 stated that -
Education providers have an obligation to meet the needs of children with delayed personal development (including incontinence) in the same way as they would meet the individual needs of children with delayed language, or any other kind of delayed development. Any admission policy that sets a blanket standard of continence, or any other aspect of development, for all children is discriminatory and therefore unlawful under the Act.

It does not matter if a child doesn't have an 'identified problem' - as many children who go on to have medical or developmental issues, may not have had them identified at this age.

ie - schools and early years settings are not supposed to have a blanket 'no nappies' policy.

Supporting children in all areas of their development is part of the EYFS. Supporting care routines, whilst encouraging independence is no different supporting and encouraging any other area of a child's development.

Huh?

Even if they don't take kids in nappies it doesn't mean they can't clean them when they have accidents as many potty trained 3 year olds do!

So let's say their policy is they don't take children who are unwell and you send your toddler in well and they then have an unexpected issue where they vomit and you are called to clean him up!!! It's not any different to that which would be a moronic thing for a nursery to do.

Ridiculous!!!

Is the nursery Ofsted registered?

I would formally complain, to the nursery and Ofsted.

Leaving a toddler covered in poo is a welfare issue - it's neglect. Registered childcare has minimum standards.

It's my four (nearly five) year old's first day in Reception tomorrow and she is under the care of a continence nurse. The school have been amazing at reassuring me that they will ensure my daughter is cleaned and changed if needed and that all I need to do is supply clean clothes. But I still asked for our nurse to write a formal letter to school with her continence plan laid out because I've heard so many horror stories of children not being cleaned up when they've had an accident. As a PP said, ERIC are really helpful in regards to information around legality etc. Sorry to hear of your experience OP, it's awful treatment by the nursery.

www.eric.org.uk/help-at-school-faqs

@Ponchy read the info on this website

It is not legal and it is absolutely disgusting to leave your son waiting for you to come back , i’d seriously consider moving him on that basis alone , or at least seeking an apology and a promise that will never happen again.

I would have three concerns, what the practical use of a nursery is who can't deal with such a routine issue with caring for a three year old child, the fact they left your lovely son sitting in this state and also the legality issues of discrimination. I also would get a new nursery in this situation, and report to the govering body.

Does the nursery offer NEF funding for either the 15 or 30 hours? If so, contact your local authority early years team and Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND) team. They will not be impressed!

I have two children in different early years settings and both have PPE if they need to do personal care like this. The nursery sound bizarre. A group of 3 yrs olds will routinely have accidents. They really can't safely care for children if they can't manage it. Calling you isn't acceptable because they are leaving the child soiled in that time. I'd complain and escalate if they don't reverse the policy.

@MamaLKB it is illegal, those nurseries just haven't been challenged on it yet. Parents often just self select out, but if someone wanted to they could take them to court.
As a teacher who has frequently dealt with bodily fluids in much older children, it makes me livid that any nursery would write such a clearly impractical and frankly cruel policy. To then actually leave a child covered in poo whilst waiting for a parent to arrive takes a degree of detachment that I would find really worrying.

I would take them out of that setting asap. It's just not right to leave a three year old waiting for a parent to come and clean them when at nursery. I feel sorry for your ds. I would raise it with Ofsted and the local authority as well.

It is illegal to refuse a child on grounds of continence.

They should wear adequate PPE to change your child. Nitrile gloves , a mask and an apron. They need to look at the government guidelines for EYFS.

They don't offer the 30 hours and they aren't ofsted registered because it's part of a private school. Like others have said being potty trained is a common requirement at many private nurseries in London and elsewhere especially the ones attached to private schools. I honestly hadn't ever thought of the fact that it's a way to exclude SEN kids but of course it is. I honestly couldn't sleep last night as I keep chewing it over. The email I've had from the school was so horrid. I honestly feel like plastering it all over social media (I won't!).

They don't offer the 30 hours and they aren't ofsted registered because it's part of a private school

I'm 99.99999% sure they still need to be Ofsted registered, at least they did when I worked in one (private nursery 'attached' to a private school, although this was a few years back.

Okay seems it may have changed a few years back, I wouldn't be happy with that tbh. Ofsted has many, many flaws, but it also does hold them to certain standards and account.

Ridiculous policy and tbh I only ever hear about this on here with school nurseries in England.

I'm In Scotland and have honestly never heard of a nursery not taking a non potty trained child or not cleaning a child up that's had an accident.

When my son started nursery at 3 he was just potty trained and being in a new situation meant he had a couple of accidents in the first few months. There was never a word about it except to pass me his clothes double bagged at the end of the day.

Your poor son.

I work in early years childcare and young children need help/have accidents up to about age 5 or 6. They are being ridiculous.

I also agree that they should be Ofsted registered.

Can you find a new nursery?

I don't understand how any nursery with 3 yr olds can expect all the kids to be fully potty trained - it's not like he did it on the floor without any awareness.

My nearly-5 year old came home with dirty knickers (a smear) in a bag on one of her last days at nursery.