To think nursery need to do better?

[Ponchy]

Dropped off DS at 8:30am. Did the fucking happy dance of joy to have all the kids out of the house for the first time in 6 months. Made it to 9am and they told me I had to come get him because he had done a poo and hadn't gotten his trousers all the way down so half of it landed in his trousers. They left him sitting on the loo while I drove back there and cleaned him up. When I got there they had a dither because I wasn't suppose to come in the building but I can't clean him up if I can't get in can I!? So home we went.

I don’t know whether it’s illegal for them not to take kids in nappies because there are some nurseries that always have this policy even pre-Covid and as you say your son’s is one of them.

Regardless of that, I’m appalled. As a PP said, even a potty-trained 3 year old will occasionally have an accident. Children have accidents. You’d sent him to nursery with spare clothes. I cannot BELIEVE they left him sitting on the toilet until you arrived. How long was that? It presumably must have been a reasonable period of time? That must have been distressing for him!

Cleaning up after accidents is a basic part of providing childcare to young children. If they aren’t prepared to do that, they are not providing safe and adequate childcare. I’d move nurseries and complain.

That's really silly of them. In nursery toilet accidents are par for the course. There were a few who would still be having occasional accidents like that in reception too. The school always dealt with it without the child going home or parent coming in. Even with covid it's accepted that staff might have to touch the younger kids to help with things like this.

It is illegal, it's discrimination. I'm saying this as a parent of a child with significant SEN.

Actually, I'm not sure it is illegal if the child doesn't have a disability or SN.

The Children and Families Act 2014 places a statutory duty on schools to support pupils with medical conditions, including bladder and bowel problems. If a child has an identified continence issue which won't be resolved before they start school (whether related to toilet training or not), the school cannot refuse entry

And if the government’s Covid guidelines to nurseries say ‘in the event of a toileting accident, leave child sitting alone with shit on their clothes until a parent can come and clean them up’ then I will actually eat my hat. Disgraceful.

Also, this isn't an issue about the child going in in nappies, this was a genuine accident whereby the trousers weren't removed properly or in time..

Literally a genuine accident! Like splashing paint etc. This isn't a potty training issue at all.

If a child has an identified continence issue

Key wording here. So not any old Tom dick or Harry who's not potty trained.

@monsterad

If a child has an identified continence issue

Key wording here. So not any old Tom dick or Harry who's not potty trained.

And doesn't apply to the op's son

That's ludicrous. DS is 4 and just started school. He has some issues and we are under the specialist HV and now hospital referral so if he has an accident they just help him change and have been utterly lovely about it. When he was at nursery till now they jist got on with it.

Even if he didn't have an actual issue and jist had an accident as OP has described both nursery and school would have just helped him clean up and change.

Of course 3 year olds have accidents. I'd be definitely looking for another nursery.

He's 3. They won't take them if not potty trained. He had spares in his bag.

They can’t say that legally. It’s discrimination.
I’ve taught 12 year olds in nappies in a mainstream schools. My sons pre school said they had to be nappy trained; I asked to speak to the SENCo, turns out they meant potty trained is preferable!

How weird. Went inn to visit dd's reception teacher yesterday and they said if she has any accidents at school, just make sure she has a spare change of clothes in her bag... This is infant school!

Nope, that's definitely not acceptable to not help your DC clean up and then change clothes !

What exactly are they ''prepared'' to do ? 3yr olds will obviously have an occasional ''accident'' at nursery ffs !

And bodily fluids and poo are NOT how Covid 19 is spread, so I'd be asking them what their rationale/ reasoning was behind this ? What official body told them they are not to help a 3 yr old with toileting ?

I'd definitely be looking for another, more reasonable nursery for DC, as it's totally unreasonable to ask you to return to clean DC up, particularly as this necessitates you having to enter the premises ffs !

Are they going to have all the parents coming in to clean their kids at various times of the day and several times a week ??

OP,
''Under the terms of the Equality Act 2010 schools must not refuse admission to a child who is not toilet-trained because of a disability. All schools should have a continence policy setting out how wetting or soiling incidents will be dealt with. The policy should also set out how vomiting incidents will be dealt with.''

The concerning thing to me is leaving him dirty and on the toilet until you came. We've always treated any accidents as one if those things and change her and reassure. Her nursery do the same. The message your nursery is giving your son is that he's done wrong and from his perspective, he's punished by sitting on toilet in dirty clothes till you change him. Not a healthy attitude to it at all!

We looked around a nursery attached to a private school for one of my older DC. They took kids from the term they turned 3. I asked if the kids had to be potty trained, as my DC wasn’t at the time we looked around.

The teacher said that they legally weren’t allowed to refuse to take children who weren’t potty trained, as it could count as disability discrimination, and disabilities affecting toileting aren’t always diagnosed by the time children typically start a school nursery.

Even ignoring this, it’s not unusual for a potty trained 3 yr old to have poo or wee accidents occasionally. A nursery should be able to deal with them without calling parents.

That's ridiculous. My son is in year 3 (he has sn but in a mainstream school) and staff will help him wipe his bottom if he does a poo/clean him after an accident.

The school have just confirmed in writing that all 3 year olds must be completely independent and if covered in poo will be left that way until a parent can arrive! This is a rural school with parents who work an hour if not more away. How can this be ok!? I'm infuriated. But do I moved him and his older brother because of this when the older one is perfectly settled?

'Under the terms of the Equality Act 2010 schools must not refuse admission to a child who is not toilet-trained because of a disability. All schools should have a continence policy setting out how wetting or soiling incidents will be dealt with. The policy should also set out how vomiting incidents will be dealt with.''

How nurseries get around this is saying they dont have staff ratios to change children, so technically admitting a child who isnt trained them but having a policy that soiling accidents are dealt with by calling a parent to change them.

Ponchy I think that’s disgraceful and I wouldn’t leave any child in a setting where they thought it was ok to leave them in poo for an hour. If they are like that with toileting accidents, what else are they like that with. Will they cuddle a child who is hurt or upset? These are 3 year old children.

I thought this was very common in a school nursery setting and one of the reasons I chose an independent non school nursery setting for my child.

Re the PP on disability, unless OP’s child has a disability then it’s moot, surely.

Oh and if they won’t touch poo, what would they do with a sick child? Leave them covered in it until a parent came? I remember one hideous day when norovirus went round my daughter’s nursery. She and another child has projectile vomited over the dinner tables as they were all eating. They had to clear the room of the children, clean up, isolate the vommy kids etc but they were still able to care for my daughter with compassion and kindness. I don’t believe they couldn’t have cleaned him up.

Not sure because of covid but generally early years settings or schools cannot discriminate if children aren't Toilet trained or have accidents. Sure he isn't the first or the last to have an accident at nursery. I would have been annoyed!!

Are they operating at 1:8 ratio or do they have a qualified teacher or equivalent so actually only operating 1:13? Either way they probably don't have enough staff as even if they weren't 'allowed' to touch him, I don't understand why they couldn't calm him down and talk him through cleaning himself up to an extent rather than leaving him sitting in poo in the toilets. The quality of a lot of early years care is really concerning. I moved my son out of a nursery when they put him in the preschool room as the care was virtually non-existent and so pleased I did as it would have been a constant worry to leave him where he was.

I’d pull my child out with such callous behaviour from the nursery. A young child has accidents, “punishing” them for such is just horrible!

It's not illegal. Plenty of nurseries - especially private in London, specify this.

Sorry about your son, but it's not illegal. I can't believe people are saying this.