If we could go back do you wish we went down the herd immunity route?

[Sakalibre]

Just curious

YABU - no
YANBU - yes

Really, it’s September and there still people who believe herd immunity can be achieved without a vaccine?

Yanbu. The lockdown needs to end, yesterday. Weve only just got up and running and now our idiotic government decrees no mass gatherings of more than bloody 6! Throwing a massive spanner in the works for many SE people who have just got baxk in the swing of it. All because increasing cases. Very few people actually get seriously ill with it and fewer still die. Those who think its too risky for them to get it, stop inside. The restof us young, relatively healthy ones can carry on without life being paused every other week!!

30 people have died today, which while sad for the families isnt comparable to 1000plus in April. We dont hide in fear of flu we get on with it. A vaccine wont be anytime soon and unleas the plan is to go back and fp for the nest 2 years, pissing us all off and fucking up the economy then we need to get on with it. All articles ive read say majority of those died were over a certain age or had health conditions which msde them vulnerable. Ive not read anything saying a young healthy perspn died of it

Herd immunity is only possible via vaccination so it has never been an option.

@SomeHalfHumanCreatureThing

A study found that at least 1,356 different people brought covid into the UK, and most of the cases came from Europe (over half where from France and Spain). Cases from China made up only 0.1% of the total. About 80% of infected people came into the UK between 28th of Feb and 29th of March, so when Boris was still boasting about shaking hands with everyone.

www.bbc.com/news/health-52993734

A quarter of people said YANBU but they’re too scared to speak, as they have been throughout this time. Because the corona gestapo will destroy them.

some
ODFOD.

My LL gives me a room as a lodger as theyre low income, shes a dance teacher. Shr had 1300 from gov back in may and that was it. Shes finally able to go bsck to work and get some moneh coming in, snd these rules mean thatll be affected. Do i tske it thst youre happy to give her some of your wages so she csn stop working, to stop the spread of a massively overhyped, scaremongering magnet virus that hasnt caused so much damage as the trigger happy decisions are? Its already been 6mnths. How long exsctly are you prepsred to put your life on hold?!

The question is unreasonable. There was no herd immunity route. Why did you think there was?

somehalf I have reported you. Calling someone a dickhead is unnecessary.

I think there should have been a middle ground.

As in schools and big events banned, the measures we have in place now being put in place in March and tried to maintain a semblance of normality........ The economy is fucked. Lower paid workers will be the ones who are affected the most, the cleaners, bar staff and shop workers. Its going to take decades to. Come back from this........my town has already seen a huge surge in suicides. 2 were hairdressers, 1 a personal trainer. And those are just the ones I know of. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if suicides as a result of covid take over deaths from the virus eventually.

Without social distancing of the past months the death rate would have been far higher.

The economy would be worse hit and basic services might well have buckled with staff shortages.

Summer was likely to have a lower hospitalisation rate and vulnerable people are now for the most part taking extreme care.

Underlying conditions can often be manageable and not life shortening . It is a bit harsh to treat such people's lives as expendable

No just no, I have a vulnerable daughter who would have been collateral damage in the first wave regarding needing an icu bed for anything !

@Madein1995

30 people have died today, which while sad for the families isnt comparable to 1000plus in April. We dont hide in fear of flu we get on with it. A vaccine wont be anytime soon and unleas the plan is to go back and fp for the nest 2 years, pissing us all off and fucking up the economy then we need to get on with it. All articles ive read say majority of those died were over a certain age or had health conditions which msde them vulnerable. Ive not read anything saying a young healthy perspn died of it

That's the case BECAUSE of the restrictions over recent months. It hasn't gone away!

I work in this field, I know what I talking about. The reason deaths are lower is because it's mostly younger people catching it atm , but a huge part is that we have treatments now. We know dexomethasone works. We know hydroxychloroquine doesn't. But most importantly, the number of cases coming into hospitals is far lower than at the start, meaning we can treat the people with milder symptoms before it gets too serious! At the peak people with severe breathing difficulties were having to stay at home, only the worst cases were admitted.

What were seeing now, with an increase in cases I younger people, is quite likely what happened right at the start. Many many under 40s had the virus, very very few needed hospitalization.

None of this means that the virus has gone away. We're better at treating it, but it's still very dangerous.

Don't be so dismissive, this isn't over. Few more months yet

In the UK, excess mortality from March to June was c65000 when we'd expect RTA and industrial accidents to be lower during lockdown. And that was with a c5-8% infection rate? Putting aside questions about the possibility of reinfection and what looks like significant adverse health impacts on recovery, why do you think the economics of not locking down would be less when there would have been many more deaths and many becoming less economically active anyway. Some economic research from the 1918 flu pandemic indicated the locations that locked down effectively recovered better economically.

[quote AlrightTreacle]@SomeHalfHumanCreatureThing

A study found that at least 1,356 different people brought covid into the UK, and most of the cases came from Europe (over half where from France and Spain). Cases from China made up only 0.1% of the total. About 80% of infected people came into the UK between 28th of Feb and 29th of March, so when Boris was still boasting about shaking hands with everyone.

www.bbc.com/news/health-52993734[/quote]
That's interesting.

It's not our experience though, and that study isn't even peer reviewed. There are lots of theories, but I'm not alone in thinking that flights out of China shouldn't have continued after it was so evident that this was going to be bad (I don't want to go into details, but it's something everybody in our department was acutely aware of)

It's not just the UK. It's flights out of China in the initial phase. There was a point (around Chinese new year) where they probably should have stopped, but didn't.

@Zilla1

In the UK, excess mortality from March to June was c65000 when we'd expect RTA and industrial accidents to be lower during lockdown. And that was with a c5-8% infection rate? Putting aside questions about the possibility of reinfection and what looks like significant adverse health impacts on recovery, why do you think the economics of not locking down would be less when there would have been many more deaths and many becoming less economically active anyway. Some economic research from the 1918 flu pandemic indicated the locations that locked down effectively recovered better economically.

I wonder how many people didn't die in car accidents, or work accidents, because they were at home. It's a weird thought.

Mortality rate will be significantly lower if everybody is at home doing nothing. Adjusted rates would be more interesting.

The irony is China ended up closing it's borders. They tackled it, got it under control, and now need to keep it out.

Every country in the world should've temporarily closed borders at the start. It would all be over by now. Borders would be open again, lives saved, economies recovering. If only there was more foresight in government (and the travel industry, who are suffering more than if there'd been short-term restriction).

For us we more than likely had Covid at the very end of last year.
Both Dp (Diabetic and cancer) and Dmil (95 in a nursing home with dementia. She was tested after one of the residents died) both on paper are in the wouldn’t survive category. Both had it and survived.
Mil if anything had it to a lesser extent than myself or Ds (18).

Given the devastation the lockdown has brought to our family I now just wish we didn’t bother to lockdown.

Dp was going to start a new job but that has now gone and as he was lucky to get the job in the first place due to his age he has had to come to terms with the fact he will never work again.
I had everything in place and was about to start a business abroad but that has had to be put on hold indefinitely.
Dd and Ds both lost all their jobs at the start of lockdown.
As a family of 4 we have been surviving on UC.
Huge parts of what Dd and Ds did is not likely to come back for some years.

Some of the other stuff they did was starting to come back but as from yesterday dd and several others who work in the same business set up, through agency work have been dismissed for lying and breaking Covid regulations by the company they were working for and the agency without investigation has now informed all the other agencies dd and her work colleagues are involved in to say that they are all liars and broke Covid regulations.

They were accused of working for a particular company on a certain day and when asked about it they denied it but according to them a reliable source said they had it on good authority that they did work for this particular company on a particular day.

No one could have worked for this company on the day in question as it doesn’t open on that day.

It is beyond belief

I wish we went down the Sweden route, or the countries that went into a half lockdown.

"For us we more than likely had Covid at the very end of last year."

You more than likely didnt.

@AldiAisleofCrap

Really, it’s September and there still people who believe herd immunity can be achieved without a vaccine?

There are experts who believe Sweden and New York achieved herd immunity. I'm not saying I agree, just pointing it out that there are experts who believe this.

Considering you can get covid many times the only herd immunity that will exist is through vaccination.

The only effective herd immunity would be a vaccine. Just letting the bloody thing spread unchecked would have killed loads of people and
caused long-term illness in many more; overwhelmed the health service; and still wouldn't have caused real herd immunity!

They’re counting all deaths as COVID deaths. How many actually died with COVID. How many people die from cancer each year? Why is that not a pandemic? More deaths will arise with lock downs, open everything up and wake up