Husband's down time

[Pondlife87]

We have a 16 month old daughter who is a terrible sleeper.
Both my husband and I work. He does 5 days a week and I do 3.
We did split maternity. When i was off i did all the night wakings. When he was off we shared it as past 3am she will not settle without feeding (she is breastfed).

Now we are both back at work he does the first shift (10.30-2.30) and i do the second shift (2.30-7) of her waking. She tends to end up in bed with us from about 4 as otherwise I'm up every 30 minutes settling her. We've tried having her in bed with us all night, but she just wants to feed constantly if I'm near her and won't accept Dad.

So- i get to my point. Dad has always been a night owl and stays in his workhouse every Friday until 3am doing projects. This means we have to swap the shifts. This means I am up between 10.30-3 resettling her. Then when he comes to bed, because she needs to feed I am awake hourly resetting her and she will only accept me. Then because he has been up until 3am he gets the lie in. I get the lie in the following day.
I have expressed i am unhappy about it as I get next to no sleep all Friday night because i essentially do both shifts. He argues that lots of men/ women go out every weekend.
However i do not think it is ok to go out every weekend until 3am if you have a child, so i don't see why this is different?
I've suggested he can go out but take the baby monitor to do thr first shift and he said no. I suggest he go out and come in earlier at say 12/1 and he said no.
Am i being unreasonable with my requests?
Is there a middle ground? Can you offer any otjer solutions?
Please note this is not a request for advice to help baby sleep better. I've tried everything haha.

I feel for you. All of mine were terrible sleepers and my dh is useless at night. I ended up doing the vast majority of night care for years. Haven’t RTFT as I know it will be comments on your toddlers sleep, but I’ll answer your question instead...

Yes, your situation is unfair. However, stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, it will only be for a short time longer. It is more important that your relationship survives. Everyone has their own way of coping with the exhaustion of a non-sleeping child. It is a marriage-killler!

What I finally realised (after 3 kids) was that fairness is not the same as equality. If we did the night shift 50/50 then it would impact him much more than me, because I cope better with broken sleep. Equally I (like your husband?) need some down time when I am not on duty to stay sane.

Could you reframe the debate? Don’t think about what you’ve given, but rather what you’d like to gain. He gets a night to recharge while you take the extra slack. Ok. So what would help you recover and give you a break? Would you like time with friends, less housework, more naps?

If both of you can sacrifice to build the other up then you will come out stronger.

(Ps sitting here drinking wine while dh puts three bickering kids to bed, this is my build-up time)

@MsTSwift again with this "theory in a book" thing.

Again what people don't get is that this isn't "theory", it's the biological norm and once you begin to embrace it it is instinctive and it's behaving any other way which feels hard. There's a reason people say sleep training is "hard but worth it" - it's because it goes against every instinct you have as a mammal to leave your baby crying when you have the means to comfort them. It is hard to go against that instinct; and the only way to get through it is to in some way break your attachment to your baby. This is why people take such an adversarial stance to their babies, to allow them to psychologically "break" the evolutionary bond of empathy that makes it so ignore your baby's needs. The "theory in a book" is that babies should sleep in their own bed by X, sleep through the night by Y, "don't need" milk after Z. The babies haven't read the books. Neither have the other primates who care for their young in accordance with their instincts. There is nothing abnormal about the OP's parenting or their child's behaviour, it's just that human beings have got so incredibly far away from normal in terms of how we raise our young we've forgotten what it looks or feels like.

I have a16 month old breastfeeder OP and I totally get it! I'm still feeding a good couple of times a night as a minimum and feeding to sleep. Breastfeeding past 12 months is just so vanishingly rare that most people don't have any real life experience of it. I don't think what you're describing is that unusual. I'd probably have another bash at co sleeping from first wake up though if you aren't averse to the idea, it does maximise your sleep if you can get it to work.

I'd approach it from a "free time" perspective. Each of you is entitled to a certain amount of child free time which can either be used for hobbies or sleep. If DH chooses to use some of his free time to do his hobby he doesn't get extra "slots" to sleep. His choice.

I co sleep and do the nights but I get all the lie ins at weekends and a bit extra in the week as DH gets up with the DC when they wake up and does breakfast etc.

It does get better. My first was still feeding in the night at this stage but is now 4 and although he still comes into bed with us in the night he now goes straight back to sleep and it's all much more manageable.

18 months is hugely different to 16 months because around this time there is language explosion which means you can communicate the decision to your child, and have them be part of the conversation to wean

Is this your first? Because honestly that explosion of language doesn't bring an explosion of maturity and the 16month old wanting attention at night will not be interested in explanations in 8 weeks time. This night shift has a long way to go if you stick with it.

If he can't bear to hear her cry and doesn't want to stop night feeds he needs to step up and do a full share and not take a night off by loading the double shift on you.

What are his plans for giving you a matching night off each week?

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@bustybetty

A 16 month old needs to nap in the day, it’s vital for their development. My 4 year old still has a daily nap for an hour or more.[/quote]
not if they are not sleeping at night. Also, I would always make the quality of the day sleep worse (not quiet and not upstairs). I've had four and always made sure they slept where they laid in the day but bedtimes were different. Alternatively if she does sleep daytime then also make sure mum sleeps too. All kids are different and some need more than others, certainly our eldest who is nearly 20 could survive on about 5 hours a night and at 20 there is nothing wrong with him!

OP, I'm amazed by the number of people (who can't possibly all have degrees in childhood development) who have given you (largely completely wrong, and certainly very much unsolicited) advice about your child's sleep rather than your husband's behaviour, even though you specifically stated in your original post that you were asking about him and not your child!

To tackle a couple - there is no evidence that breastfeeding causes tooth decay (here is a link to some evidence based information with the relevant research papers linked at the bottom of the article: kellymom.com/ages/older-infant/tooth-decay/)

Night wakings in older babies and toddlers are extremely common (again this article includes links to the original research papers: evolutionaryparenting.com/myths-and-facts-about-night-wakings/)

Evolutionary Parenting also has a basic sleep screening tool that you may be interested in, OP, to check whether your baby's sleep actually IS abnormal for their age or not and if their behaviour flags up any potential concerns.

You might also like to look up The Beyond Sleep Training Project on Facebook if you haven't already

Equal leisure time is a great measure of fairness in a relationship. On Friday nights your husband seems to get a double helping (hobby time plus a lie in) while you get none. That'd be a no from me.

@MrsKoala

Presumably it works for the first night shift every other night of the week firsttimemamma. Op says the baby only wants breastfeeding on the second shift.

I suspect that the baby settles on the first shift because it’s dad doing it, and there’s no breastfeeding option. There’s unlikely to be anything special about 3am that makes settling for more than 30 mins impossible other than that the parent with the breasts has taken over.

It might actually help if the OP’s DH did MORE of the night settling instead of the OP. So he gets a much longer ‘shift’ every night until she’s sleeping through.

That probably isn’t what he would want to hear though.

My three were sleeping through the night from 3/4 months. It made it a hell of a lot easier. I would stop breastfeeding at night, or at least try it.

Breastfeeding past 12 months is just so vanishingly rare that most people don't have any real life experience of it.

I breastfed DS2 until he was 2. There were no night feeds at 16 months. He fed before bed and then again when he woke up. It’s not inevitable that longer breastfeeding means shit sleep.

Well, there’s hunger maybe? Mine were more easily settled closer to the last feed/meal (we often gave porridge as a bedtime snack). By 4-5 their small stomachs were hungry.

@ExtremelyBoldSquirrels no, it's not inevitable but a 16 month old baby that still breastfeeds at night is not unusual.

@ExtremelyBoldSquirrels

I imagine (OP will correct me) that they have come to the shifts they have because baby refuses to settle after a certain point without breast. Toddlers can be tolerant at first and then less so as the night goes on. Once they've had a goodish chunk of sleep the wake-ups can be more wide awake and they'll hold out for what they want more. Neither OP or her DH are up for leaving baby crying so subbing in Dad when she wants Mum/boobs is not going to work well for them.

Your child sounds like my first. I always thought that the mammal was very strong in her .

Suggestions:

• changing space in which you resettle(different space, different association), linked with gradual decrease of milk accessibility
• so sharing room with her ( if she sleeps in cot, put a mattress next to her) mine could be placated by holding my hand or stroking my hair. Also this is close but not close enough to feed ( I don’t mean btw to night-wean just to switch up ways of being close)

I think your dh needs to be on baby watch when doing his hobby. End of.

I also wanted to reassure you that it gets better. Mine night weaned Spontaneously just after 2 years. Continued to breastfeed until 3,5 ( through pregnancy and fourth trimester of younger sibling). Teeth are great. She is a fantastic sleeper now at 5 (wakes up to pee etc and sometimes to come and cuddle but it’s so un intrusive that I sleep through it all).

You are doing great

i mean this kindly, but your baby does not need night milk at 16 months.This should stop asap, it will be hard fora few days but wean her off it.

as for hubby, he needs to step up and be fair, he isnt at the moment

you have two problems here

Does he agree it's unfair that you end up 'on shift' for the whole of Friday night?

What does he suggest as a solution?

Get a pump. Express milk. DH does the feeds during his shift. He needs to train her ti bottle, not you. Baby will never accept a bottle from a person with breasts.

Oops thought that was 6 mos. She’s 16 months, stop the night feeds completely. It’s not needed.

I am assuming you actually talk to each other like rational adults OP. When you point out that you are up from 3:00am onwards on and off feeding and so you ARE NOT GETTING ANY SLEEP, surely he gets that? If not he is stupid. If he does get it and won't change then he is abusive.

@carly2803 RTFT. The OP and her DH have no issue with the night feeds.

@PlanDeRaccordement RTFT. The OP and her DH have no issue with the night feeds.

[quote VeniceQueen2004]@PlanDeRaccordement RTFT. The OP and her DH have no issue with the night feeds.[/quote]
The night feeds are keeping the OP up because the baby will only accept the OP. That’s the core issue imho.

[quote VeniceQueen2004]@PlanDeRaccordement RTFT. The OP and her DH have no issue with the night feeds.[/quote]
Of course thy do, it’s the root cause, if they baby wasn’t having the night feeds and sleeping through they would not need their shift system and the op wouldn’t be doing everything to get her to sleep. And the husband wouldn’t be hiding out on his shed and there would be no tension.

They have significant issues with the night feeds. That’s the fundamental issue, if they child slept through there would be nothing to post about.

Neither OP or her DH are up for leaving baby crying so subbing in Dad when she wants Mum/boobs is not going to work well for them.

Well it worked for my four DC. The father has to learn to settle a child at some point, the longer you let it go on that only mum does it the worse it gets.

Sorry but i have just read though 6 pages and your dh needs his down time he works 5 days a week does 6 night shift a week and 1 lie in a week so if you want fair you work 5 days not 3 days a week do 6 night shifts and 1 lie in a week split all house work so everything is even thats the only way that would be fair you all work the same hours equal down time equal sleep ect. However it seems you resent him having his time what do you do on your 2 extra days off a week??

It is normal for toddlers to wake in the night. It is normal for breastfed toddlers to feed to sleep. People who do not breastfeed or do not practice extended bf do not understand that this is not "an issue" but the biological norm. It is important to nightwean bottle-fed toddlers as it has a detrimental impact on their teeth. Bf doesn't.

As the OP stated very clearly in her OP her issue isn't that her child wakes frequently (as is normal) but that her husband leaves her to do everything one night a week and then expects a lie in. If you don't want to advise her on the problem she actually has, why bother commenting?