To think my friend's response was bitchy?

[StartingAgain33]

My friend and I often text about what's going on in our dating lives. I started chatting with a guy few days ago and, sounds silly, but he's the first in a very long time that I feel genuinely excited about (we have loads in common and he's just my type physically etc). He's also been really attentive, keen to meet etc. and just generally nice.

I texted her incredulously (and jokily!!) that I'm shocked someone so hot and seemingly nice has the time to be so attentive as I assume he's got loads of other women interested. I said I wonder whether he's one of those blokes that I really fancy but that other women actually find quite odd-looking (this does happen from time to time, I have quirky taste!)

I was expecting her to laugh and say haha, yes he does look a bit odd - or, don't be silly, of course he'd like you (as I would do to her - I am ALWAYS building her up like this), but instead she texted back 'He's being nice because he hasn't met you' (!!!)

She then a few messages later said 'Not to be cynical - but this is the part they can deal with - they like this bit', which I guess makes it feel less personal, but the initial message was quite hurtful.

I also feel like she just sometimes makes little digs like this that are disguised to make me feel a bit shit, particularly if I'm lacking in confidence at the time. She's also done it about my appearance when we've been together and getting ready etc. If I need the slightest bit of reassurance, she sort of uses it as a way to make me feel bad.

But maybe I'm just overly sensitive?

Her sister is super bitchy to her about her appearance so perhaps it's just her family culture and she doesn't notice. But I really don't like it, as I do a lot to make her feel good about herself, compliment her a lot because I know she feels self conscious about her appearance.

If it's useful background, she has had really bad luck with men for years and years. I have also had bad luck, but I objectively get a lot more interest and decent behavior / have had actual relationships with nice people etc. She says she doesn't care about this, but I think she does.

I would never assume she's jealous, but I just don't see where these kinds of bitchy comments come from.

I always give her the most generous interpretation of events when she's rejected and looking for answers, but occasionally I do tell her when I feel like she's not doing herself any favours (ie chasing men who clearly aren't interested) and tell her she deserves better. Maybe I shouldn't do this, even though she seems to be asking me for advice.

Or am I massively overreacting here, and I should just forget it?

Well, I was prepared to agree I was being overly sensitive but the people who are saying I'm not do resonate a bit more to be honest, knowing what I know of our friendship. So yes it probably comes across as 'victimish'... I'm sure I've been self centred and annoying to her at times for sure. I can overanalyse etc, just look at this thread. But I have found it interesting how different people have interpreted it all - I'm not sure what to think really! Anyway, I do value your opinion (and no I'm not just saying that to sound nice) - and will mull over it.

I think she just sounds cynical however I recognise the friendship dynamic you have and it could be that you’re the one more lacking in confidence and she uses that to make her feel better about herself. In that case, change the dynamic. Don’t put yourself down to her, it then let’s her do it too.

I agree that it sounds like the OP is lacking in confidence, and therefore unable to trust her own judgement on this one, which she later admits in posts is a pattern. I think those that are saying she seems self-centred are responding to the reasonably large number of posts she's shared explaining her position. But I think it comes from lack of confidence rather than secret arrogance. I agree that by putting herself down to her friend, she is inviting a bit of a kicking from someone who doesn't have it in her to not do that, but it's not her fault for getting this response - it's the friends.

I would say you need to trust yourself more in general OP, and don't give over your self worth to this friend or even to the other posters who are making you question yourself. Over 50% of people here agree with you that this woman is being bitchy, and it does sound like it is. You're trying to find reasons why this is, hence the analysis, because you don't want it to be true that she may harbour bad feelings towards you. I would say regardless of the reasons why, you should steeer clear from revealing emotional vulnerability with this one and see what that does to your friendship. She might just not be good at reassuring, especially if she finds it hard to open up herself about things.

I said to my friend the other day 'ooh, new cooker!' And she said 'aww you noticed'. I replied it was only because it was clean, obviously joking and she laughed too. This sounds similar, but it sounds like maybe you both have some unspoken issues with the other

@purplepansy.. um, perhaps a little uncalled for!! As far as I can the OP has put a lot of thought into this. If she didn't care, she wouldn't think about the issue at all. Maybe don't throw around the "passive aggressive" thing straightaway?

[quote StartingAgain33]@honeygirlz that's a really interesting perspective. I've sometimes wondered that - why I am running myself down and wanting approval from her, when she doesn't really give it.

Do you really think she won't make those comments if I don't ask for any kind of reassurance? And does that genuinely mean her valuation goes up of me, or that instead she has no opportunity to be bitchy?

Just interested from a human psychology pov![/quote]
I think it’s a bit of both. You running yourself down makes it easier for her to run you down to.

The people I know who refuse to run themselves down are treated with much more respect from colleagues and fiends. I definitely think it’s true. I can’t guarantee she won’t make any more bitchy comments but I’m willing to bet she will do it much less!

I and others have made a few comments on here before about "people pleasing" and why it's not a good thing, doesn't make one a better person and actually just rewards disrespect and prevents you from making friends. This may be a related issue.

@ShebaShimmyShake yes please pleasing is so counter productive. I'm getting better on that front but still some way to go. Have dropped a couple of people recently that I'd unconsciously been keeping in my life out of not wanting to rock the boat, and I do feel better, even if I also feel guilty sometimes / miss them a bit. I think me evaluating this friendship is part of the cycle - I don't want to just go along with things when people treat me badly anymore.

'He's being nice because he hasn't met you' (!!!)

That's an unpleasant thing to say, and however anyone frames it, I would think less of her for saying it.

I'm wondering whether there is a grey here - whether someone can like you but occasionally feel a bit jealous and let bitchiness out. I'm really not sure!

I think this is definitely true. I used to find myself regularly around friends/SIL having babies when I was infertile. I used to be happy for them, but obviously I found it hard as well. I was able to keep quiet about this resentment, but I guess it helped that I had my DH to share those thoughts with.

Your friend is single and, from what you're saying, you're the one she confides in more than anyone else.

If you do want to remain friends with her, I think you need to be up front with her about how her comments make you feel. If you don't, you will end up exploding at her one day and falling out with her big time.

If she's a good friend, then she'll take on board what you've said and apologise. If she responds by telling you that you're being over sensitive, then she isn't the friend that you think she is.

[quote StartingAgain33]@IamPickleRick yeah, it's true isn't it - I think that resentment does sort of poison everything really. It definitely makes me not trust her from time to time (hence this question), as I sometimes feel that her advice can be quite skewed - ie always assume the worst etc. To be fair it may be that that's what she would assume in the situation were it her, so it's not easy to work out!

I do think more distance is probably healthy. It's just difficult as there are many things I like about her which would be hard to replace and we've been friends for 15 years.

On the jealousy front, I always assume it can't be jealousy because I probably overly humble sometimes and don't see how it can happen. But I had a similar situation happen years and years ago where a 'best friend' actually literally hated me, and eventually it came out that she 'always felt second to me'. Ironically, I did so much to try and build up her self esteem over the years whereas she did nothing to build up mine. Again, there was a disparity in our relative levels of success in life - she was really struggling, had dropped out of college and I was doing really well etc - and I think she felt judged or something. I didn't judge her at all - I actually really loved her as a friend! But the level of vitriol from her was something else, when it all came out.[/quote]
This sounds like you have a pattern of befriending women who you don’t like but who are usefully below you in the dating pecking order. You can then boost your ego by feeling sorry for them when they don’t get male attention and get to play the victim by fake putting yourself down and being hurt and puzzled when they are bitchy towards you. Then when it falls apart you get to walk away certain that you inhabit the moral high ground and are an innocent victim of a sad bitter woman.

Not saying this to be mean, but because I recognise it. I was in a very very similar friendship for years, massively unhealthy on both sides.

Try just being friends with people you actually like.

Oh and google the drama triangle. Time to move on from this schoolgirl stuff.

This sounds like you have a pattern of befriending women who you don’t like but who are usefully below you in the dating pecking order. You can then boost your ego by feeling sorry for them when they don’t get male attention and get to play the victim by fake putting yourself down and being hurt and puzzled when they are bitchy towards you. Then when it falls apart you get to walk away certain that you inhabit the moral high ground and are an innocent victim of a sad bitter woman.

Have to say I kind of agree with this. I doubt it's conscious but it's the impression I'm getting too. I wonder what the other women are getting out of it.

@ShebaShimmyShake in my similar scenario the friend was very controlling, and I was quite passive, so she could basically get me to do whatever she wanted & I would go along with any social arrangements she wanted to make which was useful to her. We fell out when I got a serious boyfriend who didn’t like her because he saw how controlling she was, and I started standing up for myself. At that point I was no longer any use to her and she dumped me and told me at great length what a horrible person I was. I was massively hurt & gutted and believed for years that I’d been completely in the wrong but I then learnt she’d gone on to do the exact same thing to two other mutual friends. She was a very unhappy controlling person and I have a tendency to take the victim role, so we suited each other in a way. But the falling out was sad because she was also funny and sweet and we’d shared a lot together over the years.

But the previous things (I think it was you) said about women being conditioned to be pleasing and likeable and ignore their own feelings really rang true for me on this one. We’d been friends from school, fell in together with a few others at age 11 as from similar backgrounds in a not very nice school, and just sort of clung on and didn’t move on from that dynamic well into adulthood. But I still miss that little friendship group in many ways.