To think my friend's response was bitchy?

[StartingAgain33]

My friend and I often text about what's going on in our dating lives. I started chatting with a guy few days ago and, sounds silly, but he's the first in a very long time that I feel genuinely excited about (we have loads in common and he's just my type physically etc). He's also been really attentive, keen to meet etc. and just generally nice.

I texted her incredulously (and jokily!!) that I'm shocked someone so hot and seemingly nice has the time to be so attentive as I assume he's got loads of other women interested. I said I wonder whether he's one of those blokes that I really fancy but that other women actually find quite odd-looking (this does happen from time to time, I have quirky taste!)

I was expecting her to laugh and say haha, yes he does look a bit odd - or, don't be silly, of course he'd like you (as I would do to her - I am ALWAYS building her up like this), but instead she texted back 'He's being nice because he hasn't met you' (!!!)

She then a few messages later said 'Not to be cynical - but this is the part they can deal with - they like this bit', which I guess makes it feel less personal, but the initial message was quite hurtful.

I also feel like she just sometimes makes little digs like this that are disguised to make me feel a bit shit, particularly if I'm lacking in confidence at the time. She's also done it about my appearance when we've been together and getting ready etc. If I need the slightest bit of reassurance, she sort of uses it as a way to make me feel bad.

But maybe I'm just overly sensitive?

Her sister is super bitchy to her about her appearance so perhaps it's just her family culture and she doesn't notice. But I really don't like it, as I do a lot to make her feel good about herself, compliment her a lot because I know she feels self conscious about her appearance.

If it's useful background, she has had really bad luck with men for years and years. I have also had bad luck, but I objectively get a lot more interest and decent behavior / have had actual relationships with nice people etc. She says she doesn't care about this, but I think she does.

I would never assume she's jealous, but I just don't see where these kinds of bitchy comments come from.

I always give her the most generous interpretation of events when she's rejected and looking for answers, but occasionally I do tell her when I feel like she's not doing herself any favours (ie chasing men who clearly aren't interested) and tell her she deserves better. Maybe I shouldn't do this, even though she seems to be asking me for advice.

Or am I massively overreacting here, and I should just forget it?

It's hard to know if she was being bitchy or not with this one comment. But in general she sounds like she's a negative presence in your life, so you may want to rethink the friendship (or at least stop sharing things about your dating etc). Have you known her a long time? Do you have other friends?

I had a friend once who only liked to hear when I was miserable, esp when it came to dating. If I dared to tell her when I was happy, she would make some kind of negative comment until I then felt bad about myself - then she would backtrack and say she was only joking. The friendship took a huge toll on my self-esteem, and one day I just decided I didn't need that kind of toxicity in my life, certainly not from someone who was supposed to have my back and boost me up rather than tear me down. I felt so much better about myself when I cut her out of my life.

Friendships don't have to last forever if you're ultimately not getting anything good out of them.

[quote StartingAgain33]@ShebaShimmyShake I do like her. But I don't like her words sometimes. Because I like her and would rather keep close to her, I'm trying to work out whether I'm totally overreacting or not. If I didn't actually like her I wouldn't bother.[/quote]
You say you like her, but then you describe at length all the things you don't like about her. You say yourself that you aren't sure she's got your best interests at heart either.

I see this all the time, on here and in real life. Women who say they like someone and appear to believe it, but then have very little that's good to say about them and plenty that's not. I'm sure it's to do with how we are socialised to be nice and likeable to everyone and it causes this cognitive dissonance in which women really believe they like someone when all the evidence points to the contrary.

It's really ok not to get on with someone (doesn't mean you hate them or wish them ill) but you probably shouldn't be cultivating a close emotional relationship with them. It won't bring out the best sides of either of you.

That's an 'all men are bastards' text, not a 'no man could possibly like you' one.

She's your friend, she sounds quite down. I would consider trying to cheer her up or take her mind off things rather than ditching her.

She doesn’t sound like a very nice friend, and actually reminds me of an ex friend of mine who I was friends with for years and years until I gradually realised we didn’t actually like each other very much, and she was just using me for someone to go places with. If being around her doesn’t make you happy, just let it fizzle out.

It doesn’t sound bitchy to me but if you felt hurt you should have said something then. A quick response of ‘Oh no! That’s just what I didn’t need to hear!’ or “Are you saying he’ll hate me?!’ accompanied by a sad face emoji would have given her the chance to explain herself or apologise.

'He hasn't met you yet' absolutely has a personal and bitchy ring to it.
She could have said 'yeah, he's being nice ... for now!' and that would have been fine.
YANBU.

This is the thing that killed a close friendship I had. She hated it when I got male attention. We once went to a bar and a guy I didn’t even like started chatting me up. She started crying so I took her outside and tried to comfort her, tried to find out what was wrong, it was so out of the blue.

She said “he only picked you because you’re young. We are the same but he chose you because you’re younger than me.”

I only saw her once again after that. I think it’s a deep rooted hurt that some people feel inside, almost a jealousy and sometimes these moments bring it out.

YANBU.

@IamPickleRick that sounds really sad, and yes I do think she has similar issues.

She hides them most of the time, but occasionally they'll come out and she'll get upset etc. The thing is, I think I'm the only one she confides these things to, and there's quite a lot of pride around them which is why they're often hidden.

So would it be bad for me to distance myself, knowing that I'm the only one she shares this stuff with? She doesn't do it often, and I do it a bit more. I guess I'm not proud about when I feel bad. But maybe that makes the friendship feel a bit uneven anyway. I suspect she may be thinking 'what have you got to complain about' maybe? I don't know.

I think she's a massive catch and brilliant, which I tell her, so I guess I don't assume it's jealousy, but then sometimes these things happen and I do get that sense.

My first response was that was jokey. It's what I might say to a close friend, although I'd probably put a smile/wink after it.
However I think it may be just cynical as in a "that's what they're all like" type way.

@IamPickleRick

This is the thing that killed a close friendship I had. She hated it when I got male attention. We once went to a bar and a guy I didn’t even like started chatting me up. She started crying so I took her outside and tried to comfort her, tried to find out what was wrong, it was so out of the blue.

She said “he only picked you because you’re young. We are the same but he chose you because you’re younger than me.”

I only saw her once again after that. I think it’s a deep rooted hurt that some people feel inside, almost a jealousy and sometimes these moments bring it out.

YANBU.

This is the thing...that really doesn't sound like a close friendship. No insult to you, but if she hated men hitting on you and felt a need to ruin it then, well, that's just not what friends do. I don't know how long it was before you made the realisation of that night but it obviously wasn't a close, mutual friendship.

Women fall into this sort of thing so much. I think it's the socialisation always to be nice and likeable, which ironically means becoming the opposite because one is trying to force something with someone when they should just be leaving each other alone. Men definitely don't always get on (and how) but they don't seem to feel this pressure to pretend that they do.

I also never really believed in jealousy as a motive for behaviour, I always thought that there’s a huge spectrum of emotion, it can’t always be jealousy. But sometimes people get pricked by an emotion they can’t quite put their finger on - and with old friendships there are always burning resentments, usually more on one side - and these little bubbles of anger and what seems like jealousy pop out. I absolutely agree with you about pride, and with that particular friend I think the lack of acknowledgement and hurt to her pride was what led her to say that to me. And in the end I didn’t really want a friendship where she was angry at me because of something a complete stranger had done or said. I couldn’t ever be the same age as her so it would always be an imbalance.

If you are happy with all this it’s totally fine, and you sound really switched on and very aware emotionally. But I think knowing that she harbours a little bit of resentment might eventually make you break away from the friendship x

@ShebaShimmyShake so do you think in this case that @iampicklerick's friend didn't like her, or the other way around?

And does that basically mean that that friend can't really 'like' anyone that she feels jealous of?

I'm wondering because that would surely then rule out anyone that is doing 'better' than her on the men front as real friends.

Could it be more complicated than this - ie the jealous one acts out because of her own issues, but she does actually like @iampicklerick otherwise, hence remaining her 'friend'?

I'm wondering whether there is a grey here - whether someone can like you but occasionally feel a bit jealous and let bitchiness out. I'm really not sure!

ShebaShimmyShake No I realised in that moment that I wasn’t her friend. I was her competition. And I was and still am really sad about that because I personally genuinely liked her and thought she liked me.

And does that basically mean that that friend can't really 'like' anyone that she feels jealous of?

And this is where stifled resentments are made. It’s more of an envy than a jealousy really. Of course it’s possible to despise and love the same thing equally. And then feel shame for feeling that way. Either way none of it is a healthy friendship.

@IamPickleRick yeah, it's true isn't it - I think that resentment does sort of poison everything really. It definitely makes me not trust her from time to time (hence this question), as I sometimes feel that her advice can be quite skewed - ie always assume the worst etc. To be fair it may be that that's what she would assume in the situation were it her, so it's not easy to work out!

I do think more distance is probably healthy. It's just difficult as there are many things I like about her which would be hard to replace and we've been friends for 15 years.

On the jealousy front, I always assume it can't be jealousy because I probably overly humble sometimes and don't see how it can happen. But I had a similar situation happen years and years ago where a 'best friend' actually literally hated me, and eventually it came out that she 'always felt second to me'. Ironically, I did so much to try and build up her self esteem over the years whereas she did nothing to build up mine. Again, there was a disparity in our relative levels of success in life - she was really struggling, had dropped out of college and I was doing really well etc - and I think she felt judged or something. I didn't judge her at all - I actually really loved her as a friend! But the level of vitriol from her was something else, when it all came out.

I always assume it can't be jealousy because I probably overly humble sometimes and don't see how it can happen

I know what you mean with this but believe me, people can be covetous of anything. And it takes the shine off people. You’ve seen their true face, not the one they show most of the time. People can always pretend to be a better/nicer person but those moments where the inside meany comes out, that’s not pretend. That’s who they are x

sounds like jealousy to me. Not a true friend.

I think she is down on men not down on you.

It's a bit rainy on your paradey though.

Go on and show her by him being your dream man and inviting her to your wedding as (old) maid of honour.

She's not a good friend. Good friends build you up, not tear you down.

Don't run yourself down anymore. No negative comments about yourself, no disparagement, no self-effacement. People take you at your own valuation, if you value yourself, she won't make these comments anymore.

@SummerHouse hahaha. I shouldn't but that made me laugh!

Would rather believe she's just down on men. She did compliment me yesterday about my appearance a few times, so she's not always bitchy or mean!

I think that the meaning/intention may have been lost in translation here. It's too hard to call either way really, but not enough to get upset about.

@honeygirlz that's a really interesting perspective. I've sometimes wondered that - why I am running myself down and wanting approval from her, when she doesn't really give it.

Do you really think she won't make those comments if I don't ask for any kind of reassurance? And does that genuinely mean her valuation goes up of me, or that instead she has no opportunity to be bitchy?

Just interested from a human psychology pov!

I just read it as a bit banter to be honest.

Maybe she was trying to keep everything a bit light-hearted, just in case it didn’t pan out, especially as you’d said how excited you were over him.

I’d think the best of her in this one.

YANBU, that is catty. I would give a friend who was usually nice the benefit of the doubt and assume it wasn’t intended that way. But if she has form for this kind of thing, you’re probably reading it correctly.

I used to have a friend who was very very similar. She lived slightly fantasy land, where she would meet someone for five minutes at a bar, and he strung her along with texts for literally months without meeting, it was very odd and I occasionally said it was perhaps a waste of time. I was/am also single, and had been quite disappointed by a relationship I thought would work out last year. We've been friends for fifteen years, but over the past few years she has become less sociable, she would call people on the phone all evening instead of going out anywhere. Anyway, earlier this year I was upset again about the failed relationship because I had found out that the guy wasn't that nice after all, and she said, " you spend far too much time on guys. Why don't you just accept that you might be single forever". I was absolutely gob smacked.

I spent a while thinking about it, then concluded that partly she was a little bit jealous as I do actually always have some guy or other hanging about, usually it's them moping over me, but mainly she was talking about herself and has possibly been reading a lot of those self help books about acceptance, etc. So, youre right, and your friend doesn't in fact want to hear any positive stories.
And perhaps she is also worried about losing you if end up in a couple. Maybe you two should start learning a hobby together! Then she has something to boost her self esteem, and you have something else to do than listen to negative chat.