To think my friend's response was bitchy?

[StartingAgain33]

My friend and I often text about what's going on in our dating lives. I started chatting with a guy few days ago and, sounds silly, but he's the first in a very long time that I feel genuinely excited about (we have loads in common and he's just my type physically etc). He's also been really attentive, keen to meet etc. and just generally nice.

I texted her incredulously (and jokily!!) that I'm shocked someone so hot and seemingly nice has the time to be so attentive as I assume he's got loads of other women interested. I said I wonder whether he's one of those blokes that I really fancy but that other women actually find quite odd-looking (this does happen from time to time, I have quirky taste!)

I was expecting her to laugh and say haha, yes he does look a bit odd - or, don't be silly, of course he'd like you (as I would do to her - I am ALWAYS building her up like this), but instead she texted back 'He's being nice because he hasn't met you' (!!!)

She then a few messages later said 'Not to be cynical - but this is the part they can deal with - they like this bit', which I guess makes it feel less personal, but the initial message was quite hurtful.

I also feel like she just sometimes makes little digs like this that are disguised to make me feel a bit shit, particularly if I'm lacking in confidence at the time. She's also done it about my appearance when we've been together and getting ready etc. If I need the slightest bit of reassurance, she sort of uses it as a way to make me feel bad.

But maybe I'm just overly sensitive?

Her sister is super bitchy to her about her appearance so perhaps it's just her family culture and she doesn't notice. But I really don't like it, as I do a lot to make her feel good about herself, compliment her a lot because I know she feels self conscious about her appearance.

If it's useful background, she has had really bad luck with men for years and years. I have also had bad luck, but I objectively get a lot more interest and decent behavior / have had actual relationships with nice people etc. She says she doesn't care about this, but I think she does.

I would never assume she's jealous, but I just don't see where these kinds of bitchy comments come from.

I always give her the most generous interpretation of events when she's rejected and looking for answers, but occasionally I do tell her when I feel like she's not doing herself any favours (ie chasing men who clearly aren't interested) and tell her she deserves better. Maybe I shouldn't do this, even though she seems to be asking me for advice.

Or am I massively overreacting here, and I should just forget it?

@costco that is eerily similar! She spends months and months (sometimes years) being strung along by guys, often by text with maybe the occasional meetup, and accepting absolute crumbs. Then she analyses it and makes a big drama out of it, slightly living in a fantasy land that he really likes her even though he hasn't bothered to meet her in months. The other day I suggested that one of these men might not be very nice, as he actually has a girlfriend (she discovered this through stalking him on social media), and she then got defensive and said it wasn't romantic anyway, they were just friends (even though they met on a dating site, have met only about twice and had sex one of those times).

Yeah, I should probs just keep quiet about my dating gossip again. It's just annoying as I don't see her as unequal to me and would love for her to feel like an ally, just as I feel for her!

Sadly we live in different cities, hours away, so a hobby isn't possible, but I agree maybe we should build our friendship about different things. We have definitely bonded over our mutual 'issues' (in a funny way) about men and general cynicism in that area, so will take some time to extricate myself from that!

@costco and yes, sounds like your friend was jealous. I just have a really hard time believing anyone would be jealous of me, but that's. not to say it can't be true. Like you, I always have some guy on the scene and some of them have been pretty great, even if they didn't work out.

YAnBU. I rather liked @blarrr 's first response about the fact that you had "sussed" something.
The thing is, no friend is perfect, and that comment was off, or could have been a joke but you don't think it is because of other things you have noticed.
So I would give her a pass on this one if you want to keep the friendship but it does sound unequal, you expect reassurance from her and she seems to react to that a negative way and pull her up on it the next time she does this.
If I need the slightest bit of reassurance, she sort of uses it as a way to make me feel bad.
You know this now so you need to stop offering her opportunities up on a plate to make a snark remark.

Thinking about your remark which set her off. You saw it as self deprecating humour but could have been interpreted as a bit of a stealth boast and this is why she reacted that way? If that is the styleof speaking, it could be that she may have been misinterpreting things and is reacting accordingly. Does she see your building her up as a bit patronising?

Its really difficult to get tone of voice into a text, so its better to ask her face to face. It doesn't have to turn into an argument if you ask her in a lighthearted way "Did you really mean to.."

I think you are doing yourself down too much towards this friend and should practice being much more assertive, in a nice way. Don't criticise yourself to her and then be surprised when she agrees with you.
Chances are that you may be doing this with other people too without realising.
Take a bit step back and think about how you can improve your confidence and faith in yourself, recognise all the positives about yourself and not rely on people like this friend who sounds like she has a lot of issues herself. to do it for you as you know now it will only lead to disappointment.
If the other aspects of the friendship are worth keeping then changing the way you react to her might actually save the friendship and save you from feeling down. Do you have more sympathetic friends or a relative who you can trust a bit more. and try to widen your circle of friends so that a trip up in this friendship seems less important.

After all that, you've shown her generosity in how you treat her and set an example of how you would like to be treated, and it seems she is not treating you as you'd like her to.
Why isn't she appreciating that?
The only thing then is to ask her, the next time she does it.. say to her.. "That's quite an unkind thing to say. do you realise it hurts my feelings." You are allowed to have a moan to a friend sometimes. But overall I think you need to have a lot more faith in yourself and create your own reassurance, rather than rely on people who have already shown they won't provide it

@StartingAgain33...god I hope we don't have the same friend! that would be hilarious. What I found interesting was what my mother said when I asked her opinion (which I wouldn't usually, I'm 40!), and she thought that over the years, I had been giving much much more than I was getting from that friendship.
Obviously you're the best judge of that... I looked back on all the times that I'd booked something nice for us to do like go the theatre, and she binned the tickets and took us on a massive two-day hangover style bender (yes of course I agreed to that, but it wasn't actually what I wanted). or the time that i was out for drinks with a friend I see once a year as he lives in hong kong, and she rang me and half-shouted down the phone as she thought i was another friend that she wanted to accuse of being unsupportive....

What @TreadLightly3 said.
I had a 'friend' like this, she's jealous of you/ builds her self esteem by making you feel awful about yourself.
Get rid, life's too short

Thanks @DuckbilledSplatterPuff for such a thoughtful response, you are right...I think it's one of those situations where I'm probably looking for more reassurance from her than other friends BECAUSE I don't get it, and because I can sort of feel she doesn't want to give it? I think I'm also unconsciously maybe trying to play my own strengths down to counter her potential jealousy, but you're right - maybe this comes across as patronising, as does trying to build her up, so I should definitely stop.

I do have other friends I could go to. The funny thing is I don't, because I know their answers would be 'don't be ridiculous, you're a massive catch' etc, and that they would really mean it.

So in the case of this friend, and another I mentioned in another post, I am gravitating towards someone that cannot give me what I want to hear for some reason.

Tempted to do what @Maddison12 is saying and just drop the friendship, but maybe there's a way to salvage something nice even if distant. I don't know. Frankly, my single friends are really dwindling at this age and so that is a factor for wanting to keep her, plus our history and shared interests etc.

@costco ah we're a little younger than you (not much), so not the same person, but uncanny that there are so many similarities!! And yes, I would say on an emotional level I am probably a lot kinder than she is to me, although she has definitely been sweet over the years at points. I do just know though that that bitterness is there. Sad but what's the point in denying it anymore, hey? Sorry you're feeling sad about still. It's a horrible feeling being disliked for something that's not your fault!

ShebaShimmyShakeso do you think in this case that**@iampicklerick's friend didn't like her, or the other way around?

I know only what Iampicklerick has said, but it certainly sounds as though her friend did not truly have her back, and indeed that seems to be what she realised that night. The way she spoke about it, though (sorry to refer to you in the third person, Iampicklerick), suggests that she did at some point recognise a pattern of behaviour. That night might have crystallised it, but I'm guessing she did sense it on some level before then, because otherwise it wouldn't have bothered her enough to end the friendship; she'd just have thought her friend was having an off night and it was a one off in an otherwise great friendship, probably because friend was feeling low about something. That's not how it was.

I'm sure this is sometimes a result of jealousy, or just building oneself up by climbing over someone else. But I do think there is something more complex going on as well. Women, for some reason, often don't find it easy to accept that they just don't like someone or that that person doesn't like them. We are conditioned to be so pleasing and sweet and nice and likeable, and it actually means we end up being anything but, because we're not being honest with ourselves about the most basic feelings and basically forcing friendships with no real substance because ultimately the two people involved just plain don't like each other, or at least not enough for whatever relationship they're pursuing.

There was a grown woman of 30 on here the other day who had seen a guy a few times and absolutely couldn't stand him, the very sight of him repelled her, everything he did,plus there was a very dodgy sexual incident that probably caused it...and yet, for some reason, genuinely seemed to need help in knowing what to do and couldn't seem to realise that she needed to tell him it wasn't working between them and she wanted to call it off. When I last saw the thread I think she was planning some weird elaborate method of gradually ghosting rather than just being upfront that she didn't want to continue seeing him.

I honestly don't mean this as any insult, but while you say you like her, everything else you say really indicates that you don't, or at least don't enjoy her company. That really is ok; you don't have to like everyone or be liked by everyone. It doesn't mean you hate her or wish her any harm, or her you. I think these weird situations could come from jealousy etc, but very often just come at least in part from women feeling, for whatever reason, that they can't just own the fact that they aren't compatible so the stress of that comes out in exchanges like this.

Tbh, if she always makes comments like this then even if she truly means them as a joke or generic "men are shit" comments, you feel as though they're personal and they hurt you. The logical question is, then...so why are you two in this "friendship" if you're on such different wavelengths?

@ShebaShimmyShake yes I definitely see what you mean...I think I have a tendency to downplay my own instincts on these things - in dating situations too! And generally find rejecting people really really hard. I'm not as bad as that woman, but I have definitely stayed in loads of situations which are clearly unhealthy because I basically don't respect my own feelings.

Maybe when it comes down to it I don't like her enough to be friends. I think I like everything but this behaviour - but I don't want to have to censor myself so that she isn't bitchy tbh.

This is going to sound bad, but I think sometimes I can stay friends / date someone for longer than I mean to, because there's an element of me that feels a bit sorry for them maybe? I don't mean to do it at all. But I've noticed it being a pattern, with this woman and with the other woman I had issues with. They were both quite unusual characters, with few friends and quite big relationship issues, and maybe there was a part of me that didn't want to drop the friendship because of that? There's obviously some ego there even if I can't feel it. I do see lots of positives in her besides these things - so many positives - but I do wonder whether sometimes I'm drawn to these people because I feel I can relate to them myself and they don't feel threatening, and then it sort of blows up in a way.

God, I'm overanalysing now. But def need to listen to my gut more. I'm not sure I DO really enjoy my time when I see her. I think I just have grown to really like her presence in my life, but tbh most of it is via text at the moment, given we have lived in different cities for a decade and can't see eachother at the moment due to pandemic / health issues on her side.

And @costco she is definitely worried about losing me if I was part of a couple. Her bday is the day after new year's eve, and we have a tradition where we spend both together, which means she doesn't have to feel alone on either day (neither do I!). I think she would find it really hard if I spent new year's with a boyfriend instead and wasn't there for her bday, and she makes a huge effort on my birthday - sometimes buying what I feel are way too expensive gifts - I think partly so I will reciprocate and be there for hers? That seems a very ungenerous interpretation but it is the sense I get.

This is the sort of thing I would text my friend as a joke with laughing emojis and I know she wouldn’t be offended as that’s just how we are.

In reality I think she’s attractive and wouldn’t mean any malice.

It’s quite possible your friend was joking with you don’t think too much into it. I suppose it depends how she is usually, only you know if she meant it seriously or not.

Shes jealous .. and she doesnt sound great either if im honest x

I think she’s being frank and not necessarily bitchy. She may have seen the difference in behaviour herself, pre and post-meet, and be applying it to you.

However, this paragraph does speak volumes and makes me wonder if she is quite a negative/ bitter person:

If it's useful background, she has had really bad luck with men for years and years. I have also had bad luck, but I objectively get a lot more interest and decent behavior / have had actual relationships with nice people etc. She says she doesn't care about this, but I think she does.

For anyone also thinking about this stuff, I thought this article was great - apparently 50% of relationships with friends and family are 'ambivalent' . like this one is, and it causes you a lot more stress than a straight up friend or enemy: www.psychologies.co.uk/my-difficult-friend

The author took the middle road and downgraded the friend to someone she didn't need to rely on. I had actually mostly done that this year, but slipped up by mentioning this guy. Will go back to man gossip being only very topline.

@eugenesaxe she has had several instances of meeting men and then them quickly going off of her, and / or stringing her along for ages but never meeting again. Which is a big shame, and I don't know why as she is nice and attractive. But it must certainly affect her self esteem. I don't think most women would chase after them for so long to be honest.

Definitely cynical about men, not about you.

You on the other hand come across as over-sensitive when it comes to you, but lacking sensitivity when it comes to her. If she's having a tough time dating, a true friend wouldn't have an issue with filtering her own positive news. It's called being selfless.

This sounds like something I could’ve easily said...

I’m shocked you see it as bitchy. It sounds like honest objective polite advice to me.

The following sentence explains exactly what she means.

She doesn’t mean “when he sees you he will be put off by how you look”.

She means “becareful, men are hormonal and like chasing but when they finally meet the girl they show their true colours”.

Yes she is being cynical. But I don’t think it’s stemming out of bitchiness.. It’s stemming out of her being cynical.

Perhaps her cynicism is why she hasn’t had many relationships because she lost trust in men. So it’s not wise that you are expecting support from her about something she doesn’t entertain in her own personal life and feels strongly about..

I’d spare her the details because she might turn over protective if she gets invested. If you really do want her opinion then you have to acceot the context it comes from might not agre with you but don’t take it personal

@PurplePansy05 I can see why you think that, but I have censored myself and not told her anything positive about my dating life for a very long time because I didn't want to make her feel inadequate in any way. This was one slip up.

This comment from her isn't the only one which is why I have interpreted it in a bitchy way - she has also made comments about my appearance etc, and if I ever mention any guy she makes digs about them not really liking me enough etc, or 'oh he was ugly anyway' (when they're not!). She generally seems to like kicking me when I'm down. So, should I really feel it's my fault when I let slip one time that I actually feel excited about someone (it's not even serious - we havent' even met yet!!) and that I can't believe someone like him would pay me attention? Only for her to say that?

I'm not sure it's me being a bad friend, as many other posters have said, and I'm inclined to agree.

Of course you're inclined to agree because that's what you want to hear. From your posts, you come across very self-centred. Perhaps you don't notice it. Your friend's perception of your behaviours may be very different to yours.

@purplepansy05 Self centred in what way? Genuinely interested.I am over analysing, definitely, but I'm fascinated in other people's opinions and experiences on this one. There's almost a 50/50 split between YABU and YANBU which I guess reflects how it's easy to see it both ways.

Op.. take a break from each other by demoting the frirndship.

It’s enough that you aren’t feeling at ease with her to not need to remain besties and go invest in other friendships until you figure this one out.

I think the communication between you and her isn’t great and you need to work on that first before bringing someone into your close circle of friendships.

If you haven’t been speaking to her for a while, you suddenly appearing with very personal details might have come across as boasting..

U never know how you come across to people especially over social media becshse if you haven’t spoken for ages her image of you would have changed a little and your behaviours might of be taken in the same light

A friend cracking a rude joke is different to an acquaintance and vice verse.

So pick up the communications and before that don’t go exposing yourself to personal remarks which might throw you off simoly becshse you aren’t equipped for this type of friendship with her.

I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault here based on what I read but that the friendship needs some refreshing

Your/her behaviour might not be taken in the same light *

Honest view? Obviously based on what you wrote only. You come across as a phoney person, ticking off all the right boxes as a friend but for all the wrong reasons. You appear to enjoy being in a better position to your friend and you expect that she should be supportive of you regardless of what she's going through. Your issues are superficial and you demand attention. In the same time, you lack empathy, genuine interest and true understanding of her. But no one can say anything bad about you because on paper you're nice.

Sorry, OP, it's all about you and you do not seem genuine - that's how you come across.

@PurplePansy05 that's a shame, but I respect your opinion. Whatever I say is going to come across as defensive, so no point responding to all of your points. The only thing I can see which is irrefutable, because it's my feelings, is that I definitely have empathy and a genuine interest in her, and I am pretty sure she would say (she has said) that I am the only one she trusts to talk to about difficult things. I don't do that because it's a tickbox - I do it because I care. I'm just hurt and fed up.

You're doing this again, you're passive aggressive - saying all the right things, but ultimately it's all about you and how you're feeling and how you're a nice person that didn't do anything wrong. I think you're playing a victim here and you know it.

Agree with the above. You come across as a bit too virtuous and smug on here OP, but who knows whether that translates to in person.