Bereavement drama queens

[nearlynermal]

Recently bereaved. In my experience, when you lose a loved one, there are a) the people who kind of don't say anything because they're not confident of saying the right thing, and that's fine b) the ones who ask 'What can I do?' in a quite insistent way that kind of puts pressure on you, c) the ones that are perfectly lovely and send a nice card or flowers or something d) the one or two who manage to say the exactly right thing... and then there's e) the one who really really wants you to fall apart so they can hold you while you sob and wail. And when you say 'thanks, actually I'm feeling fairly steady, touch wood,' they don't quite want to accept it? AIBU to want to tell them to stand the fuck down?

@SadorWickedFairy

Excellent post Difficult.

Regarding this line:

I judge the people who tell me that they will hug their child a bit tighter because mine died.

You see people on here say this to bereaved parents or parents whose children are seriously ill and it's downright cruel and spiteful, there is nothing compassionate about it at all.

Similarly those who inform you they have been or are crying for you, how is that supposed to comfort the bereaved, it's not, it's the person saying it wanting to make it all about them and expecting the bereaved to comfort them and take on board their fake distress.

People who do the above are abhorrent attention seeking drama llamas.

When a friend's DS died, I absolutely DID hug my child tighter. I would not have dreamed in a million years of saying that to her. God.

@Daphnedelafontaine

Hope this is okay to ask here.

A colleague who I really like's DH died tragically at the weekend, leaving her widowed with two DCs. One a newborn.

I sent a text saying how sorry I was etc, is there anything else I can do? I'd be horrified to be thought to be intruding or anything but she's the most lovely person. She has lots of family support so isn't on her own.

Anyone help me on if there's anything I can/should do please?

Keep checking. Everyone asks at the start, then they forget. Ask if she needs help and how she is in a month and then after another too. When it feels like you are they only one who cares now, that everyone else has moved on; that's one of the horrible bits.

Grief thief 😡
And those who want to tell everyone so 'they knew first' ... I found out from my cousin that my mum had passed away via email (Australia arm of family where my mum lived, my step dad was useless and took hours to call me/my brother and darling cousin emailed in between saying not sure if you've heard but your mum died this morning' ... gee thanks - thought a phone call may be more suitable ... particularly as I was on my own with a new born (hence not being in Australia)
Sorry for your loss OP 😔🌹

I judge my sil who had only been in the family 7 years as opposed to my 25 years who put on fb that my mil told her on her deathbed that she was her favourite and best daughter in law and was more like a daughter to her. My mil's real daughter loved hearing that on fb and so did I. We have no idea if its true though, could have been made up for all we know, but once said on fb, it cant be taken back can it.

So with you there. I loved heartfelt cards which were not accompanied by drama. I hated "oh well he had a good innings" - from someone whose parents were both still alive. Really?! Is that supposed to make me feel better??

@Daphnedelafontaine

Hope this is okay to ask here.

A colleague who I really like's DH died tragically at the weekend, leaving her widowed with two DCs. One a newborn.

I sent a text saying how sorry I was etc, is there anything else I can do? I'd be horrified to be thought to be intruding or anything but she's the most lovely person. She has lots of family support so isn't on her own.

Anyone help me on if there's anything I can/should do please?

You've done the right thing so far - acknowledged it without making it about you.

However, general comments about if there's anything you can do tend to be too overwhelming and not helpful, albeit well meaning. She's a colleague so look around and figure out what you can do in the workplace to help NOW and consider for later. Eg, reassure her that you'll make sure no one will be sending her work requests or just get on with doing her work or whatever. I think a lot of people don't want to impose so they tell the person to ask for help, but that's quite hard. At the same time, it can be difficult to ind the right thing to offer - eg, as a colleague, offering to babysit her kids is probably inappropriate.

A friend told me that we should meet for a movie and was wednesday good for me. The first tie, I said no. The second time, I said yes. If she'd said, " let me know when you want to get together to see a movie and just forget for a while" I would never have gone to that movie.

Years ago, my then next-door neighbours' lovely son was killed in a car crash. He was 17. When I saw my neighbour, I told him how sorry I was, and that he was a lovely young man, and said just to give me a shout if there was anything I could do.

He thanked me, and then said "Do you know, I've lived in this street my whole life and there are people here I've known all my life. They cross the road now, so they don't have to speak to me".

I vowed then that I would never not say anything to someone I knew who was recently bereaved, and I've stuck to that.

Everyone is different, what you want from friends is very different to what another may want, no right or wrong. I'm a bereavement counsellor and my line is always that you need to communicate what you want (and don't want) because otherwise nobody knows. Nobody wants an over the top friend but too often I'm hearing that people are abandoned by long standing friends because they (the friends) find it too awkward and don't know what to do or say.

Take care all

@Wherrsmaclickypen

Perhaps there needs, sadly, to be another category - the recently bereaved who are terribly judgemental?

Completely agree. But in their defence, grief tends to make you a bit insane. 2015 was a terrible year for me as I lost both parents in six months. I was completely mad for a bit.

I've had a few hurtful experiences of how people treated me when I lost close family, e.g. the boss who, two weeks after my mother died, said "Now that you've got over your family problems, can we get on with this...." That still upsets me years later that I was in the middle of this horrible grief and he just dismissed it like it was all over once the funeral was out of the way. I wish I'd spoken to him later or even suggested to HR that he needed some training. Unkind comments or a crass lack of sensitivity are horrible and the kind of thing Difficult experienced are just unforgivably unkind.

But I tend to be a bit tactless, so I'm fairly tolerant of people who are just awkward and don't know what to say/do around bereavement. Some people are just naturally warm and empathic, but those who find it difficult to find the right words or to understand aren't worse people, it's just how they are, which I think is fine as long as they are also kind.

One reaction I remember with a lot of fondness was when I went back to work after a miscarriage, and a colleague, who is very blunt, awkward and tactless, came up to me and said "Sorry in advance if I say anything stupid. I'm rubbish at this kind of thing, but I expect you're sad. Here's a cup of tea and a biscuit." Then walked off. I loved that because he is totally not the kind of person to offer a hug and a listening ear and he knows it, but he was kind in his own way which I really appreciated.

Daphne I'm by no means an expert, but I'd be inclined to leave it for now.
Everything will be in a blur and there will be loads of people milling about.
I would (quietly!) Text her again in a month or so and see how she is coping, often times that's when the long haul is just beginning

People who feed off other people’s grief, saying they’re ‘devastated’ etc. are just sick attention seekers. Unfortunately the likes of FB have made it all too easy for them to parade their fake grief to all and sundry.

OTOH I think some people say nothing because they’re afraid of saying the wrong thing and upsetting the person.

The son of someone I worked with only occasionally and hardly knew, died in very tragic circumstances. It was some weeks before I saw or worked with her again.
I agonised about whether to say anything, in case it might remind her, when perhaps she’d forgotten for a brief moment.
Eventually, when it was quiet, with nobody else around, I did just say how very sorry I was.
Her eyes filled with tears, but she thanked me for mentioning him, since so many people didn’t like to. (Presumably for the same reason I’d had.)

I’ve never forgotten that.

I am sorry for your loss, and that some people are adding to your pain. I have also experienced hurtful responses. In my experience, it's not so much being a drama queen as thinking that the right thing is to 'take over' and to force certain forms of condolence ritual on you. I am probably unusual in my need for privacy at times of grief, and find it upsetting if people, especially those I don't know very well, insist on 'coming to be with you' or tell me how to grieve, whether it's in religious terms or how to go through the 'five stages of grief' or worst of all (when my dad died when I was a young adult) 'You need to be strong for your mother'. I think one problem is that some of the current advice given to friends of the bereaved is very explicitly recommending what could seem to some bereaved people as a rather pushy sort of involvement. One cliche is that 'it is better to say the wrong thing than to say nothing'; another is that you should not ask people to contact you if they need something, but should just do the things without asking. I agree that it's better to offer concrete suggestions - 'I am going shopping on Saturday; is there anything that you'd like me to buy for you?' - than just tell the person in general terms to ask when they need something; but I would HATE people to take over and do things that they think would be helpful for me without checking first! I think that sometimes this sort of advice assumes that the bereaved person will be so much in shock that they will not be able to make decisions for themselves, whereas this is only occasionally the case. Anyway, I think that most people are well-meaning, but often follow conventions or general advice, which may not apply to an individual and may make things worse rather than better.

You hug your child tighter, you don't bloody tell it to the grieving parents!

I reckon people have seen "I'm going to hug my child tightèr" on the internet and think it's what you say to bereaved parents. Really insensitive thing to say. Might as well say "I still get to hug my child, you don't "

The problem is that death is a bit of a taboo subject now, and because most of us live longer, we don't know exactly how to deal with bereavement - or other people's bereavement - when it happens.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Oh God. What hideous people. I'm so so sorry.

I don't understand why people do it, anymore than i understand anyone going to pieces when someone they've never met dies, such as a celebrity

I don't get the celeb thing, either. I've been saddened by the death of many "celebrities" and people I've never met, but not to the point where I go into a full-on grief fest.

I still can't listen to David Bowie's final album though. It's just too fucking sad.

People say very different things on chat forums than they do in real life, mostly.

Lots of people say things like 'I wouldn't be able to go on without my husband' or 'it would be like half of me is missing' on mumsnet.

No-one in real life said anything like that to me.

I think Facebook is the worst in some ways as people do say tactless things or post in ways the bereaved person might find offensive.

It's also true though that in most cases, there is not one bereaved person. Friends can be devastated by the loss of a close friend who they might have known longer than your marriage. Colleagues can feel really upset as they spent a long time in real life with the person but weren't necessarily super-close emotionally.

The whole thing is difficult, but I have been pleasantly surprised by just how caring and nice most people are- my close friends and family anyway. There are a few people who weren't around in the very early stages for support, but I consider life and friendship to be the long game, and it may be I come to need a holiday away next year and am delighted to get together with an old friend. I don't think everyone needs to be similarly close all of the time, and actually it's helpful if one person steps forward when another doesn't and it's more of a turn-taking thing. I certainly won't be 'cutting people off' for not being more supportive in those early times- perhaps they didn't have a lot to give then but they might in the future. Or I might be able to step forward for them at another time point. I'm of the more friends the better way of thinking.

The “hug my child” thing is obnoxious and just smug. There are so many smug people about now. Has it dropped off the “sin” chart?

Regarding the pp who said someone said they’d lost their cat, I can understand that. The loss of my dog was far worse than the loss of elderly family members. And many people are lonely and rely very strongly on the love of their pet. I don’t want to start a pets v humans bunfight, but just want to point out that although it might be a bit foot in mouth, people can be utterly felled by a pet bereavement.

That does sound distracting, but it may be the aunt was quite triggered by the funeral. I had friends who attended my husband's funeral who had recently lost people themselves, and one excused them. I have sobbed at funerals not for the person themselves so much, but my feelings of grief that stretch backwards. I agree attention seeking gasping and loud crying isn't needed, but sobbing at a funeral is surely a fairly normal thing. I also think the close family are in shock often at that point and don't sob, and that it's the outer circle people who are in an emotional position to actually say goodbybe.

Agree. My mum didn't cry at my dad's funeral (apart from the bit where ds waved goodbye to the coffin and told everyone with the confidence of a 3 year old that grandad waved back) but she broke down in tears a year later at her mil's funeral because her grief finally caught up with her.

I was six months pregnant at my dad's funeral. I organised it, gave a reading, spoke to everyone at the funeral tea and my mum was told what a cold bitch I must be to do all that with dry eyes whilst pregnant. It didn't hit me until my daughter was born looking like a mini me and I remembered my dad talking about my birth and then the first time he saw dc1 followed by the realisation he'd never meet her. I lay there sobbing clutching my baby.

vinyldetective

Also agree with that, and think your point is actually the main one -everyone needs to be cut some slack about behaviour around grief. Not least because many decent people are highly sensitive to the vague etiquette around bereavement and end up not really doing the right thing for fear of offending, which is sad.

My worry is that often, people that are most vocal and indignant about insensitive behaviour and 'grief thieves' are only adding to the problem and also creating drama. Suspect also they are often less close relatives (being generous, as a protective response) but not the utterly bereft who are far too busy being mad with grief to be aware or bothered by this.

Op, I am sorry for your loss. Of course you are not being unreasonable, you are in grief, but I dont think categorising or analysing different responses is terribly helpful for you. I agree with minnieoks wise advice to be clear about your needs.Take care.

It's difficult and people react according to their own experiences.

When my dad died I was devastated. My mum had died ten years earlier and I had been his carer for about the last two years.
I had no siblings or his side of the family to help/talk to/share the grief.

DH was totally useless. When I got the call at 2 am from the hospital to say my dad had died (it was anticipated) he gave me a quick hug, said "oh well, I guess we knew it was coming" and then turned over and went back to sleep while I lay there silently crying for the rest of the night.

I only got through my grief because of some close friends who just picked me up and kept me functioning by arranging 'normal' things for me to do with them. I appreciated the ones who asked me "do you want to talk about your dad, or do you want to try to forget about it for a little while and talk about something else?"

For a close friend, where you knew the deceased, a letter is good - perhaps with a happy memory of the person: "I remember that time that I came to yours and your dad did XYZ for us...."

for you OP...

My mum almost had a total breakdown when our dog died. It was all linked to the loss of her mother 30 years previously (I mean she loved the dog but it really wasnt about him). I guess if the death of a friend or relative had triggered such an extreme reaction she'd have been accused of being a "bereavement drama queen".

Fucking grief tourists.
I hated them when I lost my partner.
Parasites.