Will WFH be outsourced to cheaper countries?

[Alongcameacat]

Following on from a recent thread where the majority of people believe that they will remain working from home permanently, is anyone concerned that their jobs are now high risk?

Why would companies continue paying people their current salaries when there is no need for people to be in the same place at the same time?

Surely it makes sense that companies will outsource most if not all of their WFH workforce to countries like India and Eastern Europe where labour is significantly cheaper?

As for going to the office one or two days a week - Zoom, Google Teams, would suffice for the most part and any inconveniences would be more than offset by huge financial savings?

The misunderstanding over emojis is an example of why sometimes face to face is best. Context, tone, small nuances are sometimes better expressed and understood when speaking in person.

I won't engage further with personal attacks. They are unnecessary and are indicative of your anger that your point of view isn't necessarily shared by others.

Oh, the irony! A special emoji for you: 😁 Goodnight!

Lol, @PurplePansy05 insulting the OP again. Just did this to someone else in another thread.

@purplepansy05, when are you going to start your own thread so we can all have a go? ;)

@hellotesting123123 An opinion is not an insult. You have a go at insulting me as much as you wish, if that's what you're keen to do .

OP, I agree that in some cases people will be sourced from other countries. I work in a traditionally quite well paid part of consultancy, where there are a hell of a lot of companies charging a lot for very little to be frank. As long as companies in other countries had a great grasp of English, large parts could be outsourced. I just did a tender out for a big piece of work in this regard and had interesting proposals from across Europe. I chose an English company because they genuinely had the most sectoral knowledge and could communicate really clearly (critical in this case), but give the others a few years and they may well catch up...

If anything, I think it will see the reverse happening. If employment of UK staff becomes cheaper due to WFH leading to reduced office costs, it is the jobs already sent overseas that will be cut back. Certainly my own employer has put a number of overseas plans on hold and a number of these it is fairly certain will never be revived.

@Alongcameacat

“ - that is the reason for the pole”

Oh dear. Poll, not pole...

You cant have what has been effectively a huge experiment to not have a long term impact.

This giant experiment has shown a lot of organisations that something else is possible and maybe even preferable. It has done the same to people as well.

As many posters have pointed out, off-shoring/outsourcing/AI has been around for a long time already. What I think will change is the 'grab it and go' culture, paying for small pleasures to make long hours with ghastly daily commutes bearable.

The OP is quite convinced she’s right, despite evidence to the contrary!

And a number of posters are equally convinced that they are so indispensable to their organisations that never, I say never, could their roles be outsourced.

Time will tell what the effects of this “huge experiment “ will be

@Frequency

I don't think for a second this isn't going to effect employment. It's going to have a massive effect. But it's not those wfh who will be hardest hit. Sure some money grabbing companies will give offshoring a go but most either can't or won't for the reasons already pointed. It's the leisure, tourist, beauty and service industries who are going to be hardest hit, sadly.

I think there's going to be a steady relocation of service industries to the suburbs.

Back as a geography pupil, we had to walk from the outskirts of a city to the inside counting residential properties, shops, places you could work etc.

We found it fantastically boring, obviously, but twenty years later, I'd now quite like to see that curve of goods/services available vs location - and the same ten years from today.

I come from a National Park that is a total brain drain down to London and the cities. All my dispersed friends are now quite pleased that the idea we may not need to give up our careers to move home.

(As for offshoring - I'm the decision maker on that, and WFH in our company, and was working with our new recruit in the office yesterday - the naysayers lack both foresight and imagination in making this work!)

Oh dear. Poll, not pole. An autocorrect is the most you have to add to the thread? Really? Do you feel remarkably pleased with yourself now? Carry on.

All my dispersed friends are now quite pleased that the idea we may not need to give up our careers to move home.

Let’s hope they are equally as pleased when they go to sell their city homes.

By the way I hope you are right. I hate living in the suburbs of a city. II wouldn’t want to move to where I grew up for many reasons, but I dream of the coast.

The person that was the catalyst for starting the thread (6 figure salary) is still out of work. After four interviews, an offer was made yesterday for 45% less than the last salary excluding bonuses and still city based. The times are changing.

I don't think people have their heads in the sand about off shoring. The people that are doubting your confident assertion are working in industries where the knowledge they have is ingrained from years of experience and isn't easily transferred by a few weeks or months training, or in industries where it is physically impossible to run a business offshore.

Where I work it is telling that they staff who weren't furloughed were the most experienced because they were needed to keep the business afloat.

I work for a company that sells goods and services business to business in the UK. It would be completely illogical to have a warehouse in Paris or Delhi for example. The sales team have built up a rapport with our customer base and can anticipate their needs. This takes time, and while it is possible to transfer customer service to overseas, unless someone has been in the business, has the soft skills and understands how the business works the loss of income from transferring to offshore working would cost the business millions and be difficult to recoup.

Many of our customers, including large public bodies, are concerned about where their goods from and, while the bottom line is and always has been a priority, they insist on knowing the country of origin of everything we sell and are making a concerted effort to buy goods made in the UK.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for that person due to such "hardship"? Or is it the case that the bubble has finally burst which you're struggling with, but well, welcome to the real world which has been the reality for most of the UK? Losing employment isn't something I wish upon anyone, but you cannot reasonably expect that people would be majorly concerned for those who have for a while been the most privileged and most of whom would have planned their finances. They will have to adjust, like all of us - they're not exempt.

And a number of posters are equally convinced that they are so indispensable to their organisations that never, I say never, could their roles be outsourced

This is a misinterpretation. A number of posters here present valid arguments and refuse to fall for doom & gloom and scaremongering where it hasn't been supported by equally convincing counterarguments. This has got nothing to do with thinking we're indispensable and it's been said already. Most reasonable people have gone through concerns about their jobs in the last six months and they may still be concerned. We're trying to be realistic, not unreasonably pessimistic, however.

I think what some people don’t get is that offshoring doesn’t necessarily take place overnight - it can be a long slow process that takes place over many years and this avoids many of the ‘oh it’s awful and doesn’t work’ posts / scenarios, (And that offshoring doesn’t mean India!)

PurplePansy05 I’m not going to respond to your posts as I said yesterday.

and are making a concerted effort to buy goods made in the UK.

Perhaps the Gov offering tax breaks to remain in the UK and likewise the EU for other countries. Is Brexit a good thing after all?

Yesterday Google pulled the plug on a huge property deal in Dublin. They no longer have any need for the properties.
Decades ago, the planning authorities decided to build shopping centres on the outskirts of the city nearest to where I grew up. It made life easier for people, not having to go into the city and could instead avail of underground parking. The city branches cf shops opened shops in the shopping centre. People stopped going into the city. The shops in the city closed down. That city is almost derelict now. The same happened with the other nearest city. Despite huge efforts to entice people back to the city, it never happened. There are a few places of interest for tourists but day trips cover them. I don’t care for the place, and as I said I do my shopping online so even if living nearby, I wouldn’t be contributing much to it.

So perhaps some posters are right. The cities will take the hit. Service industries will close and instead of going to well known hair salons and restaurants, we will go to our local ones as we did growing up. Will the economy be better off? No. Less consumerism. Higher unemployment. Will we have a better life/work balance? Those who aren’t affected by unemployment. Yes. Especially those who already took the hit on salaries and are living outside cities.

Maybe it really doesn’t matter where we live as long as we have good broadband. And as long as only UK people apply for UK jobs.

This is a misinterpretation. A number of posters here present valid arguments and refuse to fall for doom & gloom and scaremongering where it hasn't been supported by equally convincing counterarguments. This has got nothing to do with thinking we're indispensable and it's been said already.

Yes, exactly. I personally am not indispensable, but it would still be difficult to do my job outside the UK.

You are right about shopping centres. M and S in Meadowhall's turnover is eight times that of it's shop in the middle of Sheffield.

I like shopping, and will continue to buy from actual shops rather than online.

Living a life working from home and ordering everything I need in life online is a rather sad, sterile and isolating life IMO. Some people are so smug about doing everything online. I don't know why.

Our roads will be full of delivery vans instead of commuters.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

This is a misinterpretation. A number of posters here present valid arguments and refuse to fall for doom & gloom and scaremongering where it hasn't been supported by equally convincing counterarguments. This has got nothing to do with thinking we're indispensable and it's been said already.

Yes, exactly. I personally am not indispensable, but it would still be difficult to do my job outside the UK.

Yes. There are many COOs in this country. But a much smaller pool of people who are specialists with 10+ years experience in my industry.

Five years ago, I was quite shy and inexperienced. Really competent at handling stuff back office as it were, but you couldn't plonk me in front of others in the industry to pitch for love nor money. Now I can achieve decent pull with clients, influence decision making and generally persuade people I know my shit

I haven't actually massively progressed in terms of the planning and processing parts of operations. I was always good at those things.

All the things I have acquired are impossible to learn without working in the industry, in this country. I might have competition from lower salary options within this country, but there's not a hope in hell someone would walk into my role from a foreign country - much less remotely.

(In fact, our last CEO left because he relocated abroad and couldn't sustain the job remotely as he hoped.)

@Aridane

I think what some people don’t get is that offshoring doesn’t necessarily take place overnight - it can be a long slow process that takes place over many years and this avoids many of the ‘oh it’s awful and doesn’t work’ posts / scenarios, (And that offshoring doesn’t mean India!)

I completely agree with this.

And also many companies pay a premium for City workers, eg London Weighting.

That will go when people don't need to in the City. And they also won't need to be in the South East either, leading to a gradual erosion of salaries.

I used to work as a project manager in a translation agency. They bought and took over a similar business in China, with the idea that when the UK people went home, China would continue the work overnight so that the business never stopped.

It wasn't the greatest - there were communication issues, their English wasn't great, stuff got lost, our clients were irritated with having to deal with so many people etc. It might have been cheap but it wasn't elegant.

@Ginfordinner
Living a life working from home and ordering everything I need in life online is a rather sad, sterile and isolating life IMO.

Doesnt it rather depend on the personality of the individual? For me WFH has been a huge boon, I am naturally solitary and found the compulsory sociability of the office exhausting day in day out. I already did most of my shopping online (if Amazon doesnt sell it then I probably dont really want it).

I’ve just been on a conference call about this.

Different legalities, languages, systems availability and resilience - these things mean very careful consideration have to be given to this and won’t be the first option taken. Certainly not for banking which is my line of work.

But those trumpeting about their years of experience and expertise... are you going to be passing this on to anyone else? I don’t think so, if you are in your home office and never meet any underlings. You may know your employees now, because you worked with them in person back in normal times, but going forward do you give a damn about new people, or care about their careers or whether they gain knowledge?

It will be a sterile world where everyone stays in their narrow lane.

I suppose it depends on the role. People who work in fields which are the same over - IT for instance - might be at risk of this. But people whose jobs rely on them having qualifications specific to this country - accountancy, law, etc - probably won’t be.

In general I think companies will prefer people who can attend occasional meetings and do business development etc. in person, so while there may be some outsourcing it won’t be that widespread.

MsEllany Was it an official topic on the agenda or surmising? Interesting to read it is being discussed.

There are banks in countries which are run entirely from the bank’s country of origin. If banks relocate eg Brexit what will stop them keeping a small headcount only?

Bricks and mortar banks are becoming a thing of the past. Investment bankers are WFH. Analysts I know, returned to countries in the EU and are working from home. What will stop them from staying there?