Will WFH be outsourced to cheaper countries?

[Alongcameacat]

Following on from a recent thread where the majority of people believe that they will remain working from home permanently, is anyone concerned that their jobs are now high risk?

Why would companies continue paying people their current salaries when there is no need for people to be in the same place at the same time?

Surely it makes sense that companies will outsource most if not all of their WFH workforce to countries like India and Eastern Europe where labour is significantly cheaper?

As for going to the office one or two days a week - Zoom, Google Teams, would suffice for the most part and any inconveniences would be more than offset by huge financial savings?

We shouldn't be feeling superior at all as this gives a false sense of security. If anything, we should become more competitive, continue to learn new skills and languages as we're lacking in that regard as a nation. But again, this is not a pandemic or WFH-linked observation, I've noticed this a while ago.

But that costs money. And you can't have that if you want the government to carry on pumping billions to it's mates can you ?

@PurplePansy05 I'm sure your right. I just think those people would still feel superior regardless eg because there house is bigger or the car is more expensive. Some people are just dicks!

@ploopgh Yes, I suppose that's a fair point. There will always be some people who just have the need to show off or feel better about themselves at the expense of others, everywhere. I agree.

@DGRossetti That's it. The underinvestment in education and skills development in this country has been shocking. Some people probably would like to educate themselves further, but it's neither cheap nor easily accessible to many workers. I also think there's a lot of complacency and a lack of drive/ambition amongst some professionals and their employers too, which is an issue.

Menomosso we already do outsource so clearly you are deluded if you think we are somehow superior to other nations. Added to which, most other countries study useful subjects - the hard sciences, engineering, maths..not history, the classics or basket weaving like most UK students do. In a world relying more and more on technology, who do you think will win? This is just a stupid argument tbh. The fact is, there are millions of people in India who are far more educated and capable than the British. You need to keep up. Many of the most successful entrepreneurs are Indian. You probably don't even know them. Sheesh. Then there are all the Russian tech entrepreneurs and all the start ups in Turkey and China. You are stuck in some colonial backward thinking. We really are the backward ones

Automation and AI is more likely take over a big chunk of jobs before offshoring takes over most WFH jobs.

Haven’t we just heard from a PP that the arts are where the future lies? Tech will be automated and those jobs will no longer exist. Personally I’ve never learnt basket-weaving, but it sounds like coding is a waste
of time now. @damnthatanxiety, I suggest you follow your own advice and keep up.

@user12642379742146

Who will the customers be for these businesses if the bulk of the UK workforce is made redundant?

This doesn't matter to senior management in publicly traded companies.

They work quarter to quarter. Whatever will maximize profit for the next 3-12 months, thats what they will do, because each quarter they make promises to shareholders, and each quarter they have to come up with a new and audacious goal that will attract more investment. This includes any mouth watering options to dump local staff and try offshoring. They will usually be clever and offshore in pieces, testing each time to see whether they've lost revenue by offshoring. They know what they're doing and don't give a FUCK what impact it has on any community they work in.

They assume that if they continue to work on sourcing more customers, or tweaking their business model to cane more fees from other sources, it will all be fine for them. Maintaining the prosperity of their current customers is neither here nor there.

Some people probably would like to educate themselves further, but it's neither cheap nor easily accessible to many workers.

hardly an accident.

They assume that if they continue to work

making decisions for a future based on assuming everything else stays as is is a classic mistake behind a lot of companies that no one here will have heard of ...

@Menomosso

Haven’t we just heard from a PP that the arts are where the future lies? Tech will be automated and those jobs will no longer exist. Personally I’ve never learnt basket-weaving, but it sounds like coding is a waste of time now. *@damnthatanxiety*, I suggest you follow your own advice and keep up.

Like I said, colonial backward thinking....

One of the best quotes about the future I ever heard (and subsequently have used in talks) is from Henry Ford ...

If I had listened to the market, I'd have made faster horses

I'll add the disclaimer that the other 99% of Henry Fords views were fascistic bunk.

Software development has always been tempted by cheaper outsourcing and they always come back home as the quality of the code isn't as high.

Some US software companies do pretty well outsourcing and hiring people in the U.K.

But how would people abroad have my skills, judgement, experience and authority to replace me

I am not arrogant enough to think I’m irreplaceable (sadly)

not history, the classics or basket weaving like most UK students do.

This is immensely ignorant and short sighted. Those subjects (well the first two) are excellent preparation for many jobs where logical, creative thinking and excellent communication are required. And many of these jobs are exactly the type that can’t be replaced by robots,

However, the point about underestimating non-UK grads is totally valid. There are many, many high calibre students coming out of developing world universities and many fairly useless ones coming out of the UK.

Tech will be automated

Will it? In my field we can do fantastically complex calculations, machine learning etc ... but it still takes human intelligence to work out what questions to ask, write the code and then figure out what the results mean. Automated tech without sufficient human intelligence is liable to give the answer 42

However, the point about underestimating non-UK grads is totally valid. There are many, many high calibre students coming out of developing world universities and many fairly useless ones coming out of the UK.

Looks at current cabinet ...

Yup. Case proved.

I wonder if people realise many (probably the majority) of scans such as MRIs and CTs and many xrays are read and reported on from places like South Africa and New Zealand? Particularly true of urgent scans.

There is AI in development that can spot suicidal intent and another project using AI for talking therapy including prevention and treatment of PSTD.
People already do remote diabetes management, cardiology consultation and virtual fracture clinics. Most GPs will be continuing to offer far more virtual consultations.

not history, the classics or basket weaving like most UK students do.

Except of course, that's not even vaguely true. I'm somewhat surprised by the actual distribution of subjects tbh (I'm not sure if this is undergrads only or includes various postgrad qualifications). It's certainly arguable that the distribution may not be ideal, but the large tranche of 'subjects allied to medicine' presumably includes nurses and other staff who have to be physically present, across the country.

www.statista.com/statistics/588145/university-application-rates-in-the-uk-by-subject/

@ErrolTheDragon

Tech will be automated

Will it? In my field we can do fantastically complex calculations, machine learning etc ... but it still takes human intelligence to work out what questions to ask, write the code and then figure out what the results mean. Automated tech without sufficient human intelligence is liable to give the answer 42

Tech will become more automated but the adoption curve will be slower than it could be.

I went to the biggest tech conference in the world a few years back. They've quietly dropped predictions on the roll out of their new platform since because their users don't necessarily have the time or motivation to adhere to their schedule.

(And I personally immediately automated five or six processes immediately on arriving at my current company which was pretty useful when the business doubled in six months - automation and systemisation is something I have a real knack for. I just don't have the time to make it happen.)

It's interesting that this has essentially devolved into the typical "two cultures" debate that seems to captivate so many educated British people.

However, I don't think this is about education it is about location and that for many jobs being in the UK is important, but actually whereabouts in the UK is less important.

Anyway, as we had nearly 3000 new cases today, without loads of people going back to the office, and even before some schools/colleges/universities have gone back, maybe the government will stop mithering about people working from home.

WFH is not exactly a new concept. If it was feasible / cost effective to outsource jobs abroad as you suggest, dont you think companies would already be doing so on a mass scale?

History - done properly - teaches students a forensic approach to eliciting facts from sources. Skills that are useful in a wide range of settings. Except public debate, naturally.

We were discussing this earlier today. It's less about outsourcing to different parts of the world, but saying if you don't need to conjure why do you need to live within traveling distance of the employer's Haq?

Some jobs cone with a 'London Premium' due to the cost of living in London. If it doesn't matter where employees live this will surely be a thing of the past.

Not a chance but I’m in a community role deeply dependent on local knowledge and will still have to do site visits occasionally while wfh. Wfh just means I don’t have to trek into the city multiple times a week to work from the office now.