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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Will WFH be outsourced to cheaper countries?

398 replies

Alongcameacat · 05/09/2020 23:09

Following on from a recent thread where the majority of people believe that they will remain working from home permanently, is anyone concerned that their jobs are now high risk?

Why would companies continue paying people their current salaries when there is no need for people to be in the same place at the same time?

Surely it makes sense that companies will outsource most if not all of their WFH workforce to countries like India and Eastern Europe where labour is significantly cheaper?

As for going to the office one or two days a week - Zoom, Google Teams, would suffice for the most part and any inconveniences would be more than offset by huge financial savings?

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 07/09/2020 06:43

@Oblomov20

The quality of centralising or outsourcing entirely depends on the implementation and then ongoing maintenance of the processes. Customer and supplier reconciliation needs to be built into the process and the SLAs.

Through my career I have moved from entirely manual accounting processes (where everything was journaled) to near fully automated processes. The upside is that processes are fast, month end closing in a couple of days. The downside is that if it goes wrong a lot of people now dont have the skillset to pick apart transactions to work out what the problem is.

Centralising, off-shoring, outsourcing, automating all mean losing the local knowledge of how transactions work - what actually happens when you press button A.

I am now a creaking old dinosaur, one of the few remaining accountants who thinks of transactions in terms of double-entry bookkeeping still in captivity!

GnomeDePlume · 07/09/2020 06:46

@Oblomov20 in my company the furlough calculations all had to be done in house - not part of the SLA innit!

Oblomov20 · 07/09/2020 07:04

I know Gnome! I too am an old dinosaur, debit/credit Wink, not qualified like you, because I failed my papers, but I still know what I'm doing.

I now spend most of my time mopping up other people's mess.

Everyone thinks AI book keeping is so easy? Fine. Carry on! Call someone like me when you need someone to sort out your mess.

Piglet89 · 07/09/2020 07:10

I’m a lawyer, which is jurisdiction specific. I suppose they might eventually put in place infrastructure to train, say, people in India in English law so they can qualify.

The speed the Law Society moves at, though - I wouldn’t bet on it.

LemonDrizzles · 07/09/2020 14:53

@GnomeDePlume "The quality of centralising or outsourcing entirely depends on the implementation and then ongoing maintenance of the processes. Customer and supplier reconciliation needs to be built into the process and the SLAs."

A-ha, though, this is where it starts. The boss says "oh can we just have your write out your processes for business continuity purposes. Look at what Covid could do to us..." Then they take the spec and have outsource companies price it up.

Surprise audit of processes, SLAs, these all need to be built in, you are right. But, I'm not a fan of automation. I have used a few AI services online. They have all been terrible. There are a few automated processes at work. Some are unreliable so you still need someone to check the log and occasionally the output. (And again you would need someone who knows what the output is meant to look like - not just that there is output...)

Original poster
Alongcameacat · 07/09/2020 15:04

And again you would need someone who knows what the output is meant to look like - not just that there is output...)

But far fewer people are needed??!

OP posts:
Frequency · 07/09/2020 15:17

And I cant wait to see how automation pans out when a £0000 printer cant keep going for a few sheets of paper

Everything will work great until Windows or macaffee push out an update Grin

A lot of things are already automated in tech and its still one of the biggest growing industries worldwide, particularly in cyber security and, ironically, automation. Someone has to design and test the automated systems and keep them up to date, someone else has to keep them working and someone else has to keep them secure.

Atm, automation is creating jobs and we are no where near the point where that can change.

Menomosso · 07/09/2020 15:17

The OP is quite convinced she’s right, despite evidence to the contrary!

Ginfordinner · 07/09/2020 15:21

@Menomosso

The OP is quite convinced she’s right, despite evidence to the contrary!
It would appear so. Perhaps she works in the kind of industry where jobs can easily be outsourced.
PurplePansy05 · 07/09/2020 15:28

Or perhaps she's a Tory or The Mail plant. Only MN proved to be unreceptive, perhaps because at least some amongst us can - shock horror - think for themselves.

LemonDrizzles · 07/09/2020 17:16

@Alongcameacat

And again you would need someone who knows what the output is meant to look like - not just that there is output...)

But far fewer people are needed??!

Probably outing myself by saying this but I work for a company that runs so lean. Why hire two people when you can get one person to do the job of 3 people seems to be the motto....
OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer · 07/09/2020 17:37

@Menomosso

The OP is quite convinced she’s right, despite evidence to the contrary!
Yes, there's not exactly been a willingness to engage with people explaining why actually the issue is quite complicated...
Original poster
Alongcameacat · 07/09/2020 18:56

Currently 51% of people seem to think likewise.

Just because you are not directly affected doesn’t mean it won’t/isn’t happening in other areas.

OP posts:
Menomosso · 07/09/2020 19:12

Looks like a dead heat 50/50 to me

jujubeany · 07/09/2020 19:15

The OP has probably gone through the pandemic shouting "everyone will die" then moved onto "get the furloughed off the beaches & back to work, scroungers" to "your job will be offshored".

🥱

OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer · 07/09/2020 19:15

@Alongcameacat

Currently 51% of people seem to think likewise.

Just because you are not directly affected doesn’t mean it won’t/isn’t happening in other areas.

Vanishingly few people think nobody will be affected, so that's verging on strawman territory. The point is that it's actually a pretty complex picture, vastly more so than saying companies will outsource much of their WFH workforce. It's hugely dependent on factors specific to each company. I have no doubt at all that some will, for others it won't be possible, still others have already tried and failed. That 51% of people agree with you only means they've not really got their head round that either. I mean really, there are millions of people wfh at the moment, doing incredibly diverse things in dozens of different sectors and with varying degrees of success. Of course making vast generalisations about them is daft!
MrsNathanDrake · 07/09/2020 19:24

The golden days of offshoring have somewhat passed. Before Covid, many businesses were actively bringing some activities back to the UK. Covid has actually highlighted some massive flaws in the system- industries such as financial services with massive offshored operations in places like India found these teams unable work as them home working would violate information security regulations- not to say these things can't change.

As pp has pointed out, a lot of office jobs are very skilled and often require significant soft skills which don't always translate well to an offshore environment.

Original poster
Alongcameacat · 07/09/2020 19:49

jujubeany Putting a smile emoji at the end of your sentence doesn’t make your quite belittling comment humorous or true.

OP posts:
Frequency · 07/09/2020 19:50

I don't think for a second this isn't going to effect employment. It's going to have a massive effect. But it's not those wfh who will be hardest hit. Sure some money grabbing companies will give offshoring a go but most either can't or won't for the reasons already pointed. It's the leisure, tourist, beauty and service industries who are going to be hardest hit, sadly.

PurplePansy05 · 07/09/2020 23:12

50% agree with your eye-catching title.

The rest likely read the thread and/or contributed.

Don't flatter yourself and your closed-minded attitude, OP.

Original poster
Alongcameacat · 07/09/2020 23:24

PurplePansy05 You are being very arrogant in your assumption that whoever agrees only does so because they haven't educated themselves and changed their minds after reading posts declaring their opinion to be wrong.

It won't affect some people but it will affect many others. Very much. That won't change simply because you don't like it.

OP posts:
PurplePansy05 · 07/09/2020 23:29

Well, you've been arrogant throughout. OP with your dismissive approach to multiple very sensible arguments put forward for consideration in this thread. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it. Don't get rattled and accept your black & white view expressed throughout the thread is neither correct, nor universally acknowledged.

Manolin · 07/09/2020 23:38

Mind please ...

🐈

Original poster
Alongcameacat · 07/09/2020 23:45

universally acknowledged.

Ummmmm - that is the reason for the pole.

Many people posted on this thread. I read all posts, many of them make interesting points.

I won't engage further with personal attacks. They are unnecessary and are indicative of your anger that your point of view isn't necessarily shared by others.

OP posts:
jujubeany · 07/09/2020 23:50

@Alongcameacat Putting a smile emoji at the end of your sentence doesn’t make your quite belittling comment humorous or true. I agree hence why I put a yawn emoji!

😜