to think WFH is going to permanent for most who have switched?

[elmouno]

I was chatting with someone earlier and I said that most people currently working from home will be working from home now permanently. There will be no switch back to the offices in the city.

The other person disagreed and said people will have to go back. If they don't too much of the city economies will collapse which will affect the overall economy (i.e. no coffee, lunch, rail tickets, cleaners etc) that it would be catastrophic.

I'm guessing that businesses will be forced to change, but maybe not? Am I being unreasonable to assume that all the people now working from home will be doing so permanently?

Everyone must have massive houses to enjoy wfh, fortunately DH retires soon or else we would have to have one of those garden rooms as he is at the moment working upstairs or in the caravan but it is a right pita

DS is working from the kitchen table in a rented house share with 2 screens so basically taking over the kitchen table

@PlateTectonics

I think that post-covid employees will be more likely to work partly from home (say 2 days a week). Full time wfh seems to be losing its appeal for many! It was good at first (saving on commuting costs) but has become very boring. Going in to work gives you more variety than sitting down at your kitchen table all day every day.

Agree because this setup has always worked best pre covid.

You get the team connection in the office but the employees get the flexibility of WFH and because you have had that office time WFH is seamless.

There will definitely be a shift to more home working. My Company is being flexible but most of our team (12) couldn't wait to get back.

I for one missed the social interaction and didn't enjoy work and home merging.

That said I'm definitely struggling to fit my morning runs in now!

I believe that most companies will move to a hybrid of both. Where I work we were asked about where we wanted to be based and 10% said office full time, 20% wfh permanently the rest was a hybrid of both.

I currently have chosen to work in the office one day a week. I live alone so it breaks up my week and I also get lunch made by someone else other than me I won't go back to 4 days in the office again like before, I will not be asked to either. I mostly took my lunch in and rarely bought coffee out, so local business will not be affected by my decision.

DH will be going in one or two days a week, using an online booking system so they can keep the number of people in the office low. My office isn’t reopening until 2021 and even then will only be at 15-20% capacity to start with. I already wfh 3 days a week before this and am quite happy to do so full time, but I have a study, with a decent desk, chair and monitor etc. I do feel for our office juniors stuck in flatshares or their childhood bedrooms (or anyone with a home life that makes wfh difficult) - me being happy to wfh hopefully means they’ll be the ones who get to go back first once we reopen, since there isn’t room for us all to go back with social distancing.

Our office is in an out of town business park, so no Prets or Costas are struggling because our office is closed! There is an M&S food nearby that must be struggling - loads of people bought their lunch there, or food for their dinner. On one of the two days I used to go in, I used to do a shop there, but if I end up going in once a fortnight or so, I’ll probably still do that (if it is still open!).

*No, I really don't. I think most of the peope determined that it has worked well are people towards the end of their careers who've benefited from the kind mentors and coaching you can ibky get when you work in the same office and don't seem to see any need to give anything back. They also live in houses with plenty of space to wfh.

It doesn't work for the apprentice who needs to be alongside colleagues, for the graduate from an international university whi has come to the UK "to see the world", for the company whose customers are finding response times much slower, the inexperienced staff with no one to support them, no "learning with Nellie" etc etc.

It's great for people at the end of their careers, with no further ambition. It's not good for anyone else or their employers.*

Also agree with this. The next wave of job hunters/graduates are a bit screwed aren’t they.

Some larger companies are starting to ask people to come back to the office on a flexible basis (large London firms). I can’t imagine that most people will WFH in a year’s time, it will likely be a mix.

@elmouno

Are people really using Zoom that often? For us it's mostly Slack.

We’re using Teams.

I work in education on the support not teaching side and we are currently back one or two days a week but it’s just box ticking as my role (and those of many other support colleagues) can be done just as well from home.

I have no desire to be in - increased risk of Covid, commute time, petrol costs, cost of lunch and coffee, better work life balance wfh, lack of pointless interruptions etc.

I’ll be looking for a full wfh role elsewhere since my work place want us back in “for community spirit” and I can see them upping the on-site requirements and it just makes so sense to me. First opportunity for a wfh role and I’ll be off. As will many others I speak to.

I wonder about the health and safety aspects of large numbers of people working from home who didn’t previously. Not everyone has the space for a proper office set up. A kitchen or dining table may be the wrong height and crouching over a laptop on a coffee table or on your lap isn't good either.

Lots of interesting posts on this thread. I work from home most of the time anyway, and in fact left a job a couple of years ago because the boss wouldn't let me do more than one day a week at home even though the clients didn't care where I was as long as they got their work done on time and to the standard they expected.

If people can't get through to customer service teams etc, that has nothing to do with WFH and everything to do with inefficient systems. I ordered a new broadband connection during the later stage of lockdown and spoke to people working from home who answered the phone and got things done. Nothing to do with WFH and everything to do with training and attitude, I'd say. I ordered a book from a charity and was told it might take a while to come because people were WFH and not in the office to send them out, but in the end I think I only waited about 3 days for it.

I am in my late 40s but still have nearly 20 years to go before retirement age so I don't think I am sitting pretty and being selfish "at the end of my career". I could have, and have worked from home for years. It might affect your promotion prospects if you are not in the office, but does that matter if you are happy with what you do?

I do think it could be an issue for staff starting out, either young and new to working generally, or new to the organisation. There are currently have two new members of staff in the team I work in, one new to the organisation, one new to the team, so we'll see how it works out.

But I certainly don't intend to ever go back to a full time commute, spending £££s and time just to work somewhere else, when I can work at home or in a local hot desking hub very well. Or even my local library, for free.

As for the "is everyone using Zoom question", I use Zoom, Teams, and bluejeans. DH uses Teams and Webex.

My place of work have said WFH will be permanent. I've just got used to it now.

We are both looking at increased remote working but not 100%. It's not just the coffee shops who I'm sure can adapt but this has been a fast & vast switch but that 1 day tube/train fare will probably end up costing the same as 3 days!

I am currently wfh, quite happy with it.
If i wanted to go back to the office, its in a major city, how do i get there?
The train as it was, is far from safe. The number of people getting on the train would have to reduce to the point that would mean I am stood on the platform for hours. I just don't see how I could do it.
Three buses went past me with 20 people on - how long would it take for there to be space on one.
I dont drive! BTW

I wish it could be! Unfortunately our CEO absolutely detests us WFH and gets more annoyed about it by the day. I expect I'll be back at work within the month.

WFH is all well and good if you have plenty of space, but plenty of people dont. I know someone living in a 1 bed flat, no table or space for a desk so has been working on the sofa for 6 months which is awful for your posture. Or a friend who lives at home and both parents and two adult kids all trying to work from home is not good for productivity or family relations! Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people trying to work with toddlers and babies in the house. It just isnt sustainable long term for many people.

I think mine will be half and half although I worked from home alot anyway. If it meant keeping independent businesses open I could go with the argument that offices need to open. But if it means propping Pret or Starbucks then no. They can use all that tax they saved

@MrsMcMuffins

I think people will go back. Remote working all the time is quite lonely, I am fed up with my house also being my place of work and I think it would be difficult to start a new job remotely.

I agree. However i started my current job in April and, whilst weird, was ok. The new role I'm in requires the team to predominantly wfh even pre Covid but there were fortnightly team meetings where all the team went into the office and other smaller meetings where people went into the office. Those are now all happening online of course.

It's an interesting one about the infrastructure around office working. I always took a packed lunch to work and never bought coffee from a cafe so I wasn't supporting the local economy very well. But I'm.aware that my colleagues did. I can't say I'll be heartbroken if Costa is forced out of the city centres but I would be if small independent cafes close down as a result.

Dh doesn't want to work from home permanently. Its reducing his ability to work effectively and productively and his mental health has suffered because of the lack of contact with others. If his job were to become permanently working from home he would look for another as its unsustainable in the long term. He hates it.

The idea that every one likes wfh and its better for staff and companies is wrong. The media coverage on this has been dreadful and isnt addressing the reality of it and is just talking about the politics of it. Dh likes the flexibility of homeworking but not enforced homeworking. The move permanently will be to much more of a middle ground i suspect.

There are two reasons DH isnt returning atm. Firstly his company premises are now too small. Even with part time rotas they cannot all fit in because of the number of new hires they made during the last six months. They were supposed to be moving next year anyway and the completion date for the new offices is May. So thats the earliest return date. Ive heard of several other companies having similar issues. There are companies which have really suffered during lockdown but others which have had the opposite issue. This hasn't really been mentioned in the drive to push people back to offices.

He also doesnt want to return because of the attitude of some staff. Half his colleagues live in Greater Manchester and half dont. Those in local lockdowns are openly saying they are not following rules / not quarantining etc cos they cant be arsed and wanted their precious holidays. Their really bad and selfish attitude is making DH uncomfortable about returning as any covid restrictions are liable to be flouted. Its not a situation he wants to work in. The half of company who dont live in greater Manchester simply dont want to spread it to their local community. The company bosses have to manage the situation and understand that there is something of a divide which they will have to deal with. Again something not really being discussed in terms of returning to the office. To say its causing tension just over video calls would be something of an understatement...

@DrManhattan

I am currently wfh, quite happy with it. If i wanted to go back to the office, its in a major city, how do i get there? The train as it was, is far from safe. The number of people getting on the train would have to reduce to the point that would mean I am stood on the platform for hours. I just don't see how I could do it. Three buses went past me with 20 people on - how long would it take for there to be space on one. I dont drive! BTW

Amazing isn’t it how safety just applies to some people. While those who staff your hospitals, transport, shops etc just have to get on with it.

I hope not. I worked FH a few days a week pre-covid, with travel across the country & days in the local office the rest of the time. I hope we settle on a hybrid. We’re slowly opening up and our CEO has recognised the importance of face to face collaboration for creativity and company culture and the fact that not all of our employees have the space to work well (one of my team had to do MSTeams calls from his car as no home broadband and poor phone signal at home!) Most of my staff are itching to get back to the office, winter will definitely compound this.

I’ve had appalling service from some companies who have not put adequate infrastructure in place during Cv-19 so they need to seriously up their game to avoid losing custom long term. Have tried for over a month to change (& now cancel) a home insurance policy with a well known provider. Moved house 2 weeks ago so they’re still insuring a property we no longer own and I want a refund, which I have no way of getting off them as I can’t speak to them & they don’t respond to online queries

@Feminist10101

Watch the tax implications.

This is my thinking too. Obviously I don’t know any more than anyone else about how things will pan out but I foresee possible big tax grabs on companies who close offices etc to keep staff wfh to increase profits. The government want people back in offices and I reckon they will penalise companies who prevent this.

It's great for people at the end of their careers, with no further ambition. It's not good for anyone else or their employers.

I think this is true as well. I’ve taken a permanent wfh role but with me being hundreds of miles from the office there won’t be chances of progression. It’s a good job for right now but once this is all over I’ll be moving on.

This thread illustrates it is not going to be a one size fits all.

I have a good wfh set up - a nook in the kitchen. I get the office "buzz" from my family walking in and out. Interaction with colleagues over Teams and we are encouraged to pick up the phone to have a 5 minute chat / check in. I have been sent a large monitor and one of our office chairs - so it feels as if I am sat at my desk. I meet up with local friends also wfh - either for our morning run before work, at lunch time with pack ups or a sandwich at a café or an after work pint. It works really well for me - I see my friends more, talk to colleagues more and have more time for my family. All the while I am more productive & focused in my work.

Having said that I recognise this is not the same for all of my colleagues or people working for different companies. What Covid has done is highlight the well being discrepancies between those people with space and communities / social links. To some extent it is a financial gap, but interestingly not in all cases. We can already see the rise of Suburbia with suburban centres and small commuter hub towns are seeing an economic resurgence. The trick will be to recreate the small community hubs in city centres and volume house builder estates that were built with car commuters in mind.

@KitKatastrophe

WFH is all well and good if you have plenty of space, but plenty of people dont. I know someone living in a 1 bed flat, no table or space for a desk so has been working on the sofa for 6 months which is awful for your posture. Or a friend who lives at home and both parents and two adult kids all trying to work from home is not good for productivity or family relations! Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people trying to work with toddlers and babies in the house. It just isnt sustainable long term for many people.

Technically speaking employers still have a responsibility to ensure the health of their staff whilst working. That means stuff like providing appropriate desks and chairs. Of course if you have not got the space to put this at home, this is an issue, but it doesn't remove the legal responsibilities from employers.

This is another reason it won't be a permanent thing. At some point there will be legal challenges over working conditions and since the government line is currently behind returning to the office, they will throw weight behind it.

However at present with many schools not providing wrap around care, its not an option to return to the office for many who want to either.

Everything has to align to facilitate return to the office. Whilst you have local lockdowns in major cities, no wrap around care and covid restrictions which limit office capacity (and are costly to install / maintain), wfh will remain the default for many

I do feel there are a lot of people who really have not grasped this reality. Many of them are in government and at lesst one of them lives in a house with a no. 10 on the door. Reality isnt this government's strong point which is pretty unfortunate.