Was I unreasonable to rig the school council election?

[Coffeeandteach]

I can tell you who will win when I look at the list of candidates. Every year it annoys me that some lovely, often overlooked, somewhere in the middle child will put themselves forward and read a thoughtful speech (written all on their own, at school) but never wins. They lose out to either the most popular or the most able child.

The child who got the most votes today had a speech that consisted of only, "I should win because I am the most popular."

I broke. I rigged it. The lovely, overlooked, somewhere in the middle child was announced the winner and she was delighted (and will do a great job).

YABU- You are the Putin of teachers. Shame on you!

YANBU- Sometimes you have to help the little guy

@Whatisthisfuckery

Sorry, posted too soon.

OP, would you have rigged the election if the underdog student had been perfectly capable, but a cocky little shit you don’t like?

Not entirely the same thing but at my school we have refused to allow kids who consistently misbehave to sit on Student Council (before someone says it, yes we take SN into account when doing that). We once had a midyear election to choose a replacement. That was after a major incident though so was a big deal.

Good on you. It really isn't

You did the right thing, if there’s one thing I can’t stand in children it’s arrogance. We always used to choose the quiet kids for the best parts in the nativity when I worked in year 2. The arrogant ones were narrators 😂.

Lady, it's quite shocking the teacher calling children arrogant. Yr 2 is only 6/7 years old.
I have always been supportive of the teachers on MN. It did actually made me feel despaired and lost a bit of faith in teachers.

Fair play. I never got over a class project aged about 9 where we all had to write a piece on an important topic. We gave our speeches then the class voted on the issue they thought was most important.
My speech about the repressive apartheid in South Africa and the tragic death of Steve Biko was wasted, the class voted for animal rights because someone drew red blood on their my little pony.

@LadyCatStark

You did the right thing, if there’s one thing I can’t stand in children it’s arrogance. We always used to choose the quiet kids for the best parts in the nativity when I worked in year 2. The arrogant ones were narrators 😂.

Jesus, what's with the laughy face because you managed to take a 6 year old child down a peg or two ? Based on this thread though, you'll probably get told you're awesome and good on you 🤢. I mean, what sort of grown adults take such glee in getting one over on a small child? And these are the ones who have had a 'calling' to work with young children . Terrifying.

Good god no. Def not unreasonable. My DM was a primary school teacher in the 80's. She often bought bread and jam from her own pocket before breakfast clubs were a thing, as she knew if the kids hadn't had breakfast she would get nothing from them in class.

It's funny that at her school the kids from the most impoverished families who could only afford 1 x 20p raffle ticket for the giant Easter egg/Christmas Choc Hamper won the top prize. Every. Single. Year.

Never the kids who bought strips after strips. They won a small prize.

The teachers see and know more than the kids ever think they do. YANBU, You did right!

The teachers see and know more than the kids ever think they do

This is quite a dangerous idea to cling on to tbh. Teachers are just as likely to be biased, prejudiced and ignorant as anyone else, unfortunately. See pps above 😂😂😂 those arrogant 6 year olds, you should have seen their faces haaaa! To paraphrase.

The op didn't provide food to the kid who ended up getting this council role, because they were hungry. She didn't like one kid, she did like the other. Nobody was going to be denied or receive food they desperately needed as a result of this election. It is completely bonkers to even try to compare the two things.

Your mum sounds like a very nice woman, but don't assume all teachers are. Some are downright horrible. I'm sure your mum had some colleagues who weren't as nice or well intentioned as she was. It would be unwise to give all teachers a pass, to do whatever they like, because your mum was very nice to her class.

little bit unreasonable but you might not have needed to cheat the system if you had a "single transferable vote" system rather than FPTP.

popular kid probably wins in a field of 5 candidates as they can get 25% of the vote and the other 4 each get 20% or less. but 75% of the students see through the facade and want someone else they just can't agree which someone.

STV could well provide a sensible hardworking representative the opportunity they need.

@Tenner

Good job - my DC is writing long and really thought through applications every year as does my friend's DD. They never get it - it is always the queen bee and DD of the PTA who wins. We could do with a teacher like you!

What lesson does that teach your kids? Cheat to get what you want??

I’d rather teach mine that sometimes you can’t win them all

@Sforsh49 again, rigging a raffle prize is illegal, even if done with the best intentions. Also doesn't seem fair on the poor kids who couldn't even afford one ticket.

I’m a teacher and yes there are children of 6/7 who are arrogant already! I wouldn’t laugh about putting them in their place but I do despair when the same children get the parts, best monitor jobs etc.

@pallisers

Of course you rigged it. And it was you who had no respect for the process. you decided that your opinion on the candidates was more important than the voters.

On the scale of things in a school election where you feel you are doing good - not exactly putin is it. But yes you rigged an election and had no respect for the democratic process.

I would strongly suggest you read Miss Pym Disposes by Jospehine Tey btw.

Yeah I agree. What gives you the right to rig it. The process should be changed not you just choosing your favourite. How's that any better?

I am quite surprised by how lots of people think this is wrong but on reflection, I think my pov on what my job as a teacher is may be different to those of you who aren't teachers.
My job as a teacher is to teach children how to do things. Of course this is maths and reading etc but also hand washing, how to be a good friend, how to analyse bias in data ...
When it comes to elections, there are three parts to what I may want to teach:
1, it is an opportunity to teach children how to decide on who to vote for. An important skill for their lives. Therefore we explore as a class what we should think about when choosing, not simply choose a friend but choose someone who you think will work hard, do a good job, care about other classmates not just themselves etc. So when a candiadte makes a good point in their speech, I praise it and draw attention to it to show the class this is an appropriate point to consider. If a (potentially popular) child gets up and says "I'll get ice cream for everyone!" and that's it, I show my disappointment and express my wish that they had thought a bit more about what they can do as a school councillor and why. The class therefore pick up on my feedback and tend to be very swayed by it. This isnt rigging because they need to be taught how to choose a good SC.
2, children also need good role models from their peers. If the class do pick a person who won't do anything (which I know from evidence), it's just not a good role model for them to learn from so I sometimes do rig it to pick a better role model.
3, some children are just very hidden and need a chance to shine. The rest of the class aren't going to collectively think let's vote for this person because they are very quiet and might need an opportunity to thrive and grow in confidence - that's something that only I as the adult see. As a teacher I want to help all children develop into the best versions of themselves. If it's going to an amazing opportunity for little shy Evie who I suspect is hiding her light, but not a huge thing for Olivia who is very self assured, was SC last year
etc. Then yes in this instance I'm going to do my best for Evie and rig it for her.

@1AngelicFruitCake

I’m a teacher and yes there are children of 6/7 who are arrogant already! I wouldn’t laugh about putting them in their place but I do despair when the same children get the parts, best monitor jobs etc.

That is the most weird comment I've seen. I thought normally teachers choose who gets what part. So make sure same children don't get the part every time and give every one a chance?

Posted too soon
Teachers don't just pick someone they like - teachers don't think like that. Teachers want the best for everybody even the kids that are arrogant but they balance this. Arrogant kids need help to not be arrogant and so we teach them this through social skills groups etc.
Quiet kids who obviously want more of a voice but dont know how to get it - we help them get it.
We dont judge kids, we are aware they are in a period of growth and development in all areas and we help them to become their best selves.

My own quiet, thoughtful son was gutted when he lost to the popular ‘football champion’ who’d won the previous two years. So I think YADNBU.
I may very occasionally have done similar...

@Wwydiywm

I am quite surprised by how lots of people think this is wrong but on reflection, I think my pov on what my job as a teacher is may be different to those of you who aren't teachers. My job as a teacher is to teach children how to do things. Of course this is maths and reading etc but also hand washing, how to be a good friend, how to analyse bias in data ... When it comes to elections, there are three parts to what I may want to teach: 1, it is an opportunity to teach children how to decide on who to vote for. An important skill for their lives. Therefore we explore as a class what we should think about when choosing, not simply choose a friend but choose someone who you think will work hard, do a good job, care about other classmates not just themselves etc. So when a candiadte makes a good point in their speech, I praise it and draw attention to it to show the class this is an appropriate point to consider. If a (potentially popular) child gets up and says "I'll get ice cream for everyone!" and that's it, I show my disappointment and express my wish that they had thought a bit more about what they can do as a school councillor and why. The class therefore pick up on my feedback and tend to be very swayed by it. This isnt rigging because they need to be taught how to choose a good SC. 2, children also need good role models from their peers. If the class do pick a person who won't do anything (which I know from evidence), it's just not a good role model for them to learn from so I sometimes do rig it to pick a better role model. 3, some children are just very hidden and need a chance to shine. The rest of the class aren't going to collectively think let's vote for this person because they are very quiet and might need an opportunity to thrive and grow in confidence - that's something that only I as the adult see. As a teacher I want to help all children develop into the best versions of themselves. If it's going to an amazing opportunity for little shy Evie who I suspect is hiding her light, but not a huge thing for Olivia who is very self assured, was SC last year etc. Then yes in this instance I'm going to do my best for Evie and rig it for her.

Garbage. Maybe people vote on best speech rather than person that way it would be fair as you'd not know who wrote each piece.

Wwydiywm, no1, I totally agree. But rigging, what does that teach children? Why go though the easy option of rigging when there are many other way to change the outcome?

brilliant

It's quite concerning how some posters can't/won't accept that just like some popular children are wonderful and kind and talented, others can be unpleasant and unkind.
I doubt they'd be commenting on how the office Queen Bee (or male equivalent) just obviously be exceptionally talented at their job and kind to all so nobody should question anything.

Misuse of the word popular again. I'm not sure why people don't get it. Such children rule by fear, not popularity, surely people can see the difference. They aren't popular they are disliked but the others are afraid of them.

Why do people find that so hard to understand?

My daughter was that child who each year prepared a genuine speech and was over looked by a popular child or a child who made wild promises like they would put in a swimming pool in the playground. After a few years of tears I explained to her she didn’t need an official title to help out around the school and I encouraged her to ask the teachers if she could do some school activities. She raised money for charities and helped at school events. She never was popular enough to be voted a school councillor - but her work ethic was recognised by the school councillor itself and in her final year the council voted her in as their chairperson. Her teachers also voted her at the end of year six as the child who most lived the values of the school.
I voted you are being unreasonable - life is not always fair and these failures and challenges children experience in primary helps them learn resilience and sometimes work harder to get what they want.
Rather than rig the vote in future I would encourage you to give special jobs to interested children so they can build their confidence and feel like they are contributing.

Yanbu

That's lovely 😍

@Wwydiywm

Posted too soon Teachers don't just pick someone they like - teachers don't think like that. Teachers want the best for everybody even the kids that are arrogant but they balance this. Arrogant kids need help to not be arrogant and so we teach them this through social skills groups etc. Quiet kids who obviously want more of a voice but dont know how to get it - we help them get it. We dont judge kids, we are aware they are in a period of growth and development in all areas and we help them to become their best selves.

Bollocks all teachers want the best for all their kids. This thread has proven they do not and some teachers clearly just have inflated senses of self importance and a huge chip on their shoulders and are downright mean. I have a lot of respect for most teachers, but I never think it's acceptable for them to rig these things. If I ever find out my DC is being asked to vote in one, I will advice them to abstain having read this. How dare you do this to your entire class and then make out you're a saint for doing so? Bull.shit.

Misuse of the word popular again. I'm not sure why people don't get it. Such children rule by fear, not popularity, surely people can see the difference. They aren't popular they are disliked but the others are afraid of them.

Why do people find that so hard to understand?
Alternatively why do some people continue to pretend that playground politics and cliques mean only perfectly lovely and talented students are popular and the ones with all the social capital and influence?

How many times have there been threads and situations where people have had issues in the workplace or relationships or friendships only go say 'but nobody will believe me... They're so popular, everyone loves her, he has them all charmed and wrap round his finger, everyone would blame me over her because they think butter wouldn't melt'?
How many times have people got on in life because they talk the talk and 'get on' with people only for some working with them to have a very difficult view?
Do these traits magically appear at 18? Of course not.

It's really not hard to see that being a popular kid in school is not necessarily synonymous with being kind, hardworking and talented.