To ask who your favourite Beatle is/was?

[TwiggyTwogs]

I'm just asking as DH was watching A Hard Days Night. I'll always love Johns smile

I had no idea about Yoko being a witch!!

@TwiggyTwogs,

Yoko was institutionalised when she was younger because she was mentally ill. She was also spoilt, entitled, gullible and drug addled, and like many people who are rich beyond measure, bored.

Her art circle - people like Roman Polanski and Kenneth Anger - were deeply immersed in the occult. Most people would call it sexual deviancy, but they called it art.

John and Yoko were not living at the Dakota for no reason.

What's special about Dakota @deepbluesea18?

It's always been George for me

John and Yoko seemed just very toxic together. People sometimes excuse John's behaviour down to his drug use and mental health but in the same breath, damn Yoko (without also excusing her actions for the same reasons). Sad story but a lot of people were hurt along the way.

Saying that John was my favourite Beatle.

Finally, there’s Chapman, a penniless security guard, who just happened to be married to a Japanese woman, who was obsessed with black magic and the occult. Bizarrely, he had gone on a round the world trip in a westerly direction two years before John was shot - the same direction John was sent on by Yoko round about the same time. Most incredibly, Chapman raised the money to pay for his trip to New York (to shoot John) by selling a painting - a Norman Rockwell no less.

If you really want to disappear down a rather paranoid rabbit hole, there's quite a body of people who believe that Chapman was a victim of a CIA experiment to groom a vulnerable person into believing they had killed someone (it was a trained assassin that actually fired the shots) and quite happily taking the rap - possibly up to the electric chair for it.

Chapman, Hinckley, Lynette Froome have all be suggested as victims ...

By the way (it's important to fold your tinfoil hat correctly !) - this isn't the claim that Chapman actually carried out the killing. It's that he was tricked in thinking he was doing the killing (so given a gun etc). As part of a CIA programme to insert such "sleeper patsies" all over the world to help ensure the US way wasn't under threat.

Chapman did have arms training, and some type of link to a training camp for CIA recruits when he was much younger, but I don’t believe that John was killed by the CIA.

I do think his death was set up and staged and that he knew and wanted it to happen. I think it was like the ultimate art happening, the ultimate act of one upmanship over Paul, and the one thing guaranteed to bring him the Christ-like status with which he had been obsessed for literally years.

Chapman did have arms training, and some type of link to a training camp for CIA recruits when he was much younger, but I don’t believe that John was killed by the CIA.

As with most fruit loop conspiraloon theories, it evaporates upon contact with reality.

I do think his death was set up and staged and that he knew and wanted it to happen. I think it was like the ultimate art happening, the ultimate act of one upmanship over Paul, and the one thing guaranteed to bring him the Christ-like status with which he had been obsessed for literally years.

See above ...

@NewModelArmyMayhem18,

The location of the Dakota has some type of occult significance. I shudder to think about the ins and outs of it, but that’s why it was chosen for Rosemary’s Baby.

John also put iconography from Rosemary’s Baby on his album cover for Mind Games. They were obsessed with it.

Incidentally, unless I was asleep for all my life, the key thing about

Christ-like status

is the returning from the dead bit. Any idiot can get themselves (literally or metaphorically) nailed to a cross. That's the easy bit. (Unless you are doing it yourself. As Neal found out you can never get the last one in ... )

Presumably John Lennon would be half way to being Christ-like ?

Maybe best I get some housework done

Anyone remember The Wonderstuff ? Just had a lyric flash into my mind.

Whose got the problem ? Look at my behaviour.
God bless the Dee Jay, jeepers yowsers; peel me off the cross we don't need another saviour

Paul. I so love the Mull of Kintyre clip.

@DGRossetti,

How is any of what I’ve said a ‘conspiracy theory’.

Fact - Yoko was having an affair with Sam Green.

Fact - Sam Green had previously had an affair with a rich widow who was murdered by her vulnerable, isolated son.

Fact - Sam Green was named in John’s will.

Fact - Sam Green was named in the will of the heiress murdered by her son.

Fact - Yoko was having an affair with Sam Havadtoy.

Fact - Sam Havadtoy moved into the Dakota hours after John was killed.

Fact - John and Yoko were immersed in the occult.

Fact - Chapman’s wife was immersed in the occult.

Fact - Chapman went on a round the world trip in a westerly direction two years before the shooting.

Fact - John went a round the world trip in a westerly direction two years before the shooting.

Fact - one of Yoko’s weirdo art circle, occultist filmmaker, Kenneth Anger, met Chapman in Hawaii 6 months before the shooting and Chapman gave him two bullets and said they were for John Lennon.

Fact - The penniless Chapman, a part time security guard, bought a ticket to New York allegedly by selling A NORMAN ROCKWELL PAINTING.

If you think any of that adds up, I can’t help you,

How is any of what I’ve said a ‘conspiracy theory’.

Because none of the "facts" you have posted remotely support the suggestion

I do think his death was set up and staged and that he knew and wanted it to happen.

It's a fact that there are tens of thousands of churches around the world. Less so of a fact that any God exists - despite the fact of tens of thousands of churches around the world ...

Well, this thread has taken a decidedly strange turn
Maybe we should all go and listen to I Wanna Hold Your Hand and calm down?

BUT DON’T LISTEN TO IT BACKWARDS 👹

@DGRossetti - exactly.
Waterloo Sunset is a perfect love song to a city.
Days is the most perfect love song of all time.
Lola was ahead of its time.
Come Dancing is a beautiful tribute to his sister.
Don't Forget To Dance is so uplifting.

And the rest. What a writer.

My favourite Beetle ?

Herbie !

*@monkeyonthetable,

You haven’t heard enough Beatles songs!*

@deepbluesea18 - I really, really have. From their early rock and roll stuff to their Sgt pepper stuff and everything in between. I just can't help finding them quite good. I love Here Comes the Sun and Something in the Way She Moves but everything else I admire rather than warm to. Just doesn't do it for me. Whereas Days by the Kinks makes me shiver all over, it's so good.

Lola was ahead of its time.

I think you'd probably end up on a list somewhere today if you played it.

Now I'm not dumb but I can't understand
How she talks like a woman and walks like a man ...

I can't claim to be a Kinks fan, but I know their place in 1960s music and how it cast a shadow via The Jam to Blur to Oasis. Village Preservation Society etc. And the Dave Davies/Jimmy Page "controversy" over "You Really Got Me" (I'm much more into Zeppelin - whose "Rain Song" intro teases "Something" deliberately).

If DS wasn't into Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd and Zeppelin, I'd feel old

I don’t understand the point of you saying all that @monkeyonthetable.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious that you think your musical tastes are more sophisticated than the 99% of the rest of the world who do like the Beatles. Fair enough. But then what are you doing here?

Obviously, you don’t have a favourite Beatle, so why waste your time engaging with people whose musical tastes are so inferior to yours?

Oh I am pleased that the Kinks are getting am honourable mention, as Ray and Dave are close relatives of mine

The Kinks are/were wonderful, agreed !!!

I'm not a fan of The Stones, though. Although I admire them for still touring & still being alive & they have a few songs I quite like. I struggle to stomach Bob Dylan though (while we're dissing 60s icons). He's on a level with Justin Bieber for me in terms of valuable musical contribution or possible pleasure in listening to.

I don't believe the Goldman guy had solid & relevant-to-each-other facts in any of the books he wrote. What a strange career to go around digging for sordid dirt on people & writing books about it. Must have enjoyed thinking about such things.

Bob Dylan has written some amazing songs - many of them sung and made famous by other artists. He may not be a great singer, but his contribution to music is considerable.

@Iljkk,

Of course Goldman had facts - he interviewed over 2000 people. His book was sordid and it was published at a time when people were still reeling from what had happened to John, and so they didn’t want to know. Ono also had the means to trash it - which she did (Goldman painted her in a much worse light than John, who he saw basically as a victim).

So, yes, the book was sleazy. But so was what he was writing about. These were sick, sick people.