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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I may be being unfairly made redundant...

135 replies

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 02:49

I've posted on here before about more of my life in a shitshow, I'm not even sure I'd believe that this much crap can happen to one person - but it has, so please don't judge me, you all really helped last time. Anyway, I know there's a board for this, but I guess I'm looking for a nudge to stand up for myself rather than employment advice. Bear with me, it may be a long one.

I've been in my current job for 6 years, most of which I've been the only person doing my job. Everything was fine, then I got pregnant and I started to feel a bit pushed aside. I was told that my maternity cover would be brought in on a permanent basis as the workload was too much for one person. (It was never an issue before this point).

The day I returned to work, I was pulled into a meeting alongside my cover and told we're moving departments, got a new manager and our jobs will probably change. I only took 6 months so I was under the impression my job couldn't change. I signed a form before I left to be informed of any job vacancies within the company, I received nothing about the management role becoming available. It wouldn't have been out of reach for me, but I heard nothing until this meeting being told who my new manger was (external appointment). Also, the director and my old manager kept behind my cover and told her that this is a really good opportunity for her and they have a great future at the company. A bit strange, I thought, as we're both in the same position - why wouldn't it be said to us both?

Anyway, my job did change. I ended up doing the low-level work I'd not done since I started my career and my cover was still doing the work I had previously. After a drunken vent to my old manager, the situation got resolved, we were back to doing the same role and back under this manager. This is all just a bit of a back story.

We were furloughed in March, redundancies started not long after in which voluntary was offered to all except those who had less than two years' service, who were made redundant off the bat - except my maternity cover. I was never told my role was at risk during this period.

Not long after it was announced we'd taken on another company and redundancies were paused. Within a week, one by one, minimal staff were brought back to work on the brand launch, probably around 10 of us out of a workforce of 100. Yep, mat cover came back before me but tried to think positively that they might have been considering that I'd need to find childcare. I was given an hours notice to return to work and that month I worked around 40 hours unpaid overtime (overtime isn't a regular occurrence within the company) and the launch was a big success. Everyone got a pat on the back, it won't be forgotten etc. but we were placed back on part-time furlough to 'make the most out of the scheme' until our services are back up and running. Told this was to keep us in the loop.

Today, I've received an email to say that due to low work levels, they need to reduce staffing costs and I've been called in to discuss how this will affect me - not really sure how this can be used because we've just doubled the workload by taking on a new company. People have been asked to reduce hours in areas that aren't back up running yet (where as my area is imperative to get the company back to this point) via email so I know this is the start of the redundancy process.

The problem is, my maternity cover received an email to say she is unaffected and will return to work as normal after the furlough scheme has ended. We have the same job title, we share the same work, we have similar degrees and work experience, only I have a little more due to being slightly older, but much more experience within this company. I've never had issues with my quality of work, we don't have appraisals so nothing to go off there, it's not really a results driven role but during my time there I have numbers to my name about how I grew certain areas and increased revenue, my time-keeping is perfect, all my deadlines are met, I've been as flexible as they've needed and there is nothing to really set us apart - other than me having a child.

Not only do I feel completely screwed over after having such a big impact in saving the company with the brand launch, especially after working so much overtime, but I feel the selection process is completely unfair given someone in the same role isn't at risk. I've been singled out and I think it's because I'm a parent, the consultation process is just a face-saving exercise as their decision has clearly already been made. Their previous selection process of those new to the company are first to leave has been completely disregarded but only in my circumstance.

I want to fight it but I also feel so deflated. I've never had any problems at work so I feel completely blindsided. It was only last week I was asked to up my hours and was told there would be a package in place to covering out-of-hours work. My meeting is today but I feel sick to my stomach and can't sleep, so if you're awake, I'd love to hear if you think I should pull up my big girl pants and fight this.

I should mention my mat cover is absolutely lovely! They're backing me all the way, there's nothing sinister on her part at all.

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 04/09/2020 10:33

Good luck for the meeting OP

annielouisa · 04/09/2020 11:01

Good luck for your meeting

Aridane · 04/09/2020 11:07

And please read my post above about ‘going to court’ - realistically you are looking at a minimum £25000 legal fees by the time you get there, if you get there... can you afford that? Is your potential settlement worth that?

Or zero
If
She joins a union

And legal representation- which will be required as a matter of law before she signs any compromise ageeement - will almost invariably increase
The amount of settlement or at least see her rights are protected

SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 11:44

@Aridane

And please read my post above about ‘going to court’ - realistically you are looking at a minimum £25000 legal fees by the time you get there, if you get there... can you afford that? Is your potential settlement worth that?

Or zero
If
She joins a union

And legal representation- which will be required as a matter of law before she signs any compromise ageeement - will almost invariably increase
The amount of settlement or at least see her rights are protected

Not helpful.
  1. OP isn’t a union member and they will not help in an issue that pre-dates you joining (occasionally they will if you are part of a larger group which includes members - this is not the case here)
  1. As per my pps I was a union member and they were not helpful at all. Recommended I accept unlawful changes to my role rather than rock the boat - because they had bigger fish to fry apparently. (Take a look at the recent report about institutional misogyny in the GMB - do you think these goons have supported their women members?)
  1. I am not suggesting the OP takes no legal advice. Quite the opposite. I suggest she gets advice, fully understands the implications and then makes an informed decision. I am alerting her to the reality that many pps have not been through this and have no idea of the implications of ‘fighting’ and ‘taking them to court’. If the OP feels it’s worth it, she should absolutely go all the way - but with her eyes open
Thebearsbunny · 04/09/2020 12:00

I agree. The small business my DP works for took on 2 new employees a couple of months before lockdown. Both late twenties. All staff were furloughed. The new employees are being retained. My DP (mid fifties) is being let go. He has only worked there 4 years so statutory redundancy is paltry.

Horsemad · 04/09/2020 12:06

ACAS were useless imo when I had an employment issue.

If you have the inclination and the £££ then contact A Shit Hot Employment Lawyer but be warned, it becomes all consuming and can be very stressful.

Spend a little bit now running it by an EL and see what their take on it is.

Aridane · 04/09/2020 12:29

Not helpful.
1. OP isn’t a union member and they will not help in an issue that pre-dates you joining

Please stop peddling this nonsense.

My union will.

This anti union claptrap is unhelpful

Aridane · 04/09/2020 12:29

Sighs

Pumpkinnose · 04/09/2020 12:38

Ultimately they want the other person not you. You’ve not just come back from mat leave, ultimately you’re both in same job and behind scenes they’ve decided she is better.

Suggest you look for new role as you are and push for as much payout as possible. Good points raised so far but tribunal is a big step

dooratheexplorer · 04/09/2020 12:57

I agree with Pumpkinnose.

It's very upsetting but just put your energy into getting as much money out of them as you can and finding a new job. They don't sound particularly nice. I'm sure you can find a much better company/job.

SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 13:14

@Aridane

Not helpful. 1. OP isn’t a union member and they will not help in an issue that pre-dates you joining

Please stop peddling this nonsense.

My union will.

This anti union claptrap is unhelpful

Perhaps you should name this helpful union so that the OP can join - assuming it’s relevant to her sector.

A Union may provide advice in the first four weeks of membership -and even may provide someone to attend a meeting as a one off but will not provide paid legal support unless it relates to an issue which affects other members. And even if you are a long-term member they will not automatically provide legal assistance.

It is certainly not claptrap to share my experience that after 8 year’s paid membership, my Union refused to help me with a claim because they felt it might jeopardise their relationships and negotiations for other workers.

My advice to the OP remains - collect the facts, keep your counsel, get independent legal advice on all possible actions, outcomes and their costs, decide what works for you.

Amelia891 · 04/09/2020 13:20

Something VERY similar happened to me pre-Covid. My mat cover was brought in on a permanent role, I came back 4 days per week, 6 months later ‘due to brexit’ my manager had to reduce the team by one member and I was almost forced into taking the voluntary redundancy.

Give Maternity Action a call- I had a long chat with a lady there and she gave me some fantastic legal advice.

In the end I took the voluntary redundancy because I was sick of the commute but I came out with a payout 4 x higher than their original offer because they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Yarboosucks · 04/09/2020 13:25

OP

You are being offered lots of hyperbolic advice on here and it is not very helpful. Going to court is not an option and it will take a long time. Any settlement that you did get would be adjusted if you got another job in the interim.

My expectation is that that they made an arbitrary selection of mat cover lady without any evaluation. On that basis, I would say that you have taken legal advice. Ask them to disclose all correspondence relating to your selection for redundancy. Tell them that you are considering making a Subject Access Request under GDPR. I would ask them for an enhanced redundancy package of one months pay per year worked, plus holiday pay, plus a three month pension top-up, plus three months of health insurance costs (if you have it), plus payment in lieu of 3 months notice. Also ask for a contribution of £2000 towards legal costs. The first £30K should be paid free of income tax.

Lougle · 04/09/2020 13:34

I think you need advice because you returned from maternity leave almost 1 year ago, and although your 'maternity cover' is the other employee, that's quite a substantial amount of time that has passed. Also, there are huge changes involved with Covid. I'm not sure it can be seen as 'I'm made redundant while maternity cover is retained' now.

Flackattack · 04/09/2020 14:03

Might have been covered but if you are made redundant dies your house insurance offer legal cover - mine did and it was reassuring when going in hard.
There is loads of helpful information out there! Pregnant and screwed out be in touch with a solicitor who gave a free consult and then I used her to review my settlement (her fees For this were paid my employer!)
I settled in the end and was pleased to be out but I felt angry for a while! Good luck!

Yarboosucks · 04/09/2020 14:11

I was recently made redundant and my former employer paid my legal costs. This is quite normal.

ThatDirection · 04/09/2020 14:30

Sorry this is happening to you OP. I have no experience or advice but it sounds like they are not acting legally.

And groovergirl your posts are the most inspiring, positive thing I have read today. Smile

FluffyKittensinabasket · 04/09/2020 14:44

The thing is, employers can basically do what they want. We have very few protections and an employer can easily get around them.

Horsemad · 04/09/2020 14:47

@FluffyKittensinabasket

The thing is, employers can basically do what they want. We have very few protections and an employer can easily get around them.
This.
Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 15:57

So, I’ve been offered a settlement to leave that I can decline if I want to. If I do, it’ll go to a scoring procedure for redundancy so it will drag everyone in but it is all above board at the minute. They’ve offered to pay for my legal fees to go over the contract. I’ve been told that should business pick up again I will be offered my job back. I guess it comes down to that I probably earn more than my cover, although I am surprised at that. Just taking it all in at the minute, had a few calls today about potential interviews so I think I’ll sit on it for a week or so then see how things go. I’ve got a couple of weeks to decide if I want to take it. So I guess it could have been worse but still disappointing that it was me after 6 years. I’ll follow up with an email when I’ve got my head around it.

OP posts:
Yarboosucks · 04/09/2020 16:09

If the settlement is along the lines that I have outlined, then jump on it.
Use the legal fees and get a lawyer to advise you. Find a lawyer!
I can recommend one if you want

Camp3r20Van · 04/09/2020 16:35

If you are in UK the minimum statutory redundancy amount is on www.gov.uk
Your employer may offer you more
Plus any holiday pay
First 30k is tax free

Ask them to confirm the contact details for a reference if you are made redundant

SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 16:59

@Burtiebojangles

So, I’ve been offered a settlement to leave that I can decline if I want to. If I do, it’ll go to a scoring procedure for redundancy so it will drag everyone in but it is all above board at the minute. They’ve offered to pay for my legal fees to go over the contract. I’ve been told that should business pick up again I will be offered my job back. I guess it comes down to that I probably earn more than my cover, although I am surprised at that. Just taking it all in at the minute, had a few calls today about potential interviews so I think I’ll sit on it for a week or so then see how things go. I’ve got a couple of weeks to decide if I want to take it. So I guess it could have been worse but still disappointing that it was me after 6 years. I’ll follow up with an email when I’ve got my head around it.
That’s a good plan to just let it soak in for a few days. But I would actually recommend you get legal advice next week especially as your employer will pay for it. Just important you understand exactly where you stand

A few questions you might wish to get some advice on.

  1. What’s the difference between the settlement and any redundancy money you may be awarded? (Remember to work our how much tax you might pay as 1st £30ishK in redundancy is tax free)
  1. How long might a redundancy process take - and would that prevent you from taking a new job? (Normally you’d have to stay at your current job until the process is finished)
  1. How likely are you to get a new job that you want in the near future? Do you just want out now?
  1. If business picks up and they want to offer you your job back does that nullify the settlement and mean you get nothing? Or could you keep the money and go back (With redundancy there are rules about how soon you can be hired back but not necessarily with a settlement)

Hope this helps. Good luck

ChikiTIKI · 04/09/2020 19:10

I hope it's a lot of money and that you can walk in to another job the next day.

Sorry its not an ideal situation right now but I am hoping for you this leads on to something better in the future.

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 19:50

Thank you everyone for you help, it really is appreciated. You can’t beat a bit of Mumsnet when life is going tits up.

The money isn’t great, more than I’d get through redundancy. I’ve still not thought much about it but it does feel like a weight has been lifted. Fingers crossed for better things. (Also had 3 calls about jobs that I applied for today, made me feel better about myself).

OP posts: