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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I may be being unfairly made redundant...

135 replies

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 02:49

I've posted on here before about more of my life in a shitshow, I'm not even sure I'd believe that this much crap can happen to one person - but it has, so please don't judge me, you all really helped last time. Anyway, I know there's a board for this, but I guess I'm looking for a nudge to stand up for myself rather than employment advice. Bear with me, it may be a long one.

I've been in my current job for 6 years, most of which I've been the only person doing my job. Everything was fine, then I got pregnant and I started to feel a bit pushed aside. I was told that my maternity cover would be brought in on a permanent basis as the workload was too much for one person. (It was never an issue before this point).

The day I returned to work, I was pulled into a meeting alongside my cover and told we're moving departments, got a new manager and our jobs will probably change. I only took 6 months so I was under the impression my job couldn't change. I signed a form before I left to be informed of any job vacancies within the company, I received nothing about the management role becoming available. It wouldn't have been out of reach for me, but I heard nothing until this meeting being told who my new manger was (external appointment). Also, the director and my old manager kept behind my cover and told her that this is a really good opportunity for her and they have a great future at the company. A bit strange, I thought, as we're both in the same position - why wouldn't it be said to us both?

Anyway, my job did change. I ended up doing the low-level work I'd not done since I started my career and my cover was still doing the work I had previously. After a drunken vent to my old manager, the situation got resolved, we were back to doing the same role and back under this manager. This is all just a bit of a back story.

We were furloughed in March, redundancies started not long after in which voluntary was offered to all except those who had less than two years' service, who were made redundant off the bat - except my maternity cover. I was never told my role was at risk during this period.

Not long after it was announced we'd taken on another company and redundancies were paused. Within a week, one by one, minimal staff were brought back to work on the brand launch, probably around 10 of us out of a workforce of 100. Yep, mat cover came back before me but tried to think positively that they might have been considering that I'd need to find childcare. I was given an hours notice to return to work and that month I worked around 40 hours unpaid overtime (overtime isn't a regular occurrence within the company) and the launch was a big success. Everyone got a pat on the back, it won't be forgotten etc. but we were placed back on part-time furlough to 'make the most out of the scheme' until our services are back up and running. Told this was to keep us in the loop.

Today, I've received an email to say that due to low work levels, they need to reduce staffing costs and I've been called in to discuss how this will affect me - not really sure how this can be used because we've just doubled the workload by taking on a new company. People have been asked to reduce hours in areas that aren't back up running yet (where as my area is imperative to get the company back to this point) via email so I know this is the start of the redundancy process.

The problem is, my maternity cover received an email to say she is unaffected and will return to work as normal after the furlough scheme has ended. We have the same job title, we share the same work, we have similar degrees and work experience, only I have a little more due to being slightly older, but much more experience within this company. I've never had issues with my quality of work, we don't have appraisals so nothing to go off there, it's not really a results driven role but during my time there I have numbers to my name about how I grew certain areas and increased revenue, my time-keeping is perfect, all my deadlines are met, I've been as flexible as they've needed and there is nothing to really set us apart - other than me having a child.

Not only do I feel completely screwed over after having such a big impact in saving the company with the brand launch, especially after working so much overtime, but I feel the selection process is completely unfair given someone in the same role isn't at risk. I've been singled out and I think it's because I'm a parent, the consultation process is just a face-saving exercise as their decision has clearly already been made. Their previous selection process of those new to the company are first to leave has been completely disregarded but only in my circumstance.

I want to fight it but I also feel so deflated. I've never had any problems at work so I feel completely blindsided. It was only last week I was asked to up my hours and was told there would be a package in place to covering out-of-hours work. My meeting is today but I feel sick to my stomach and can't sleep, so if you're awake, I'd love to hear if you think I should pull up my big girl pants and fight this.

I should mention my mat cover is absolutely lovely! They're backing me all the way, there's nothing sinister on her part at all.

OP posts:
YoBeaches · 04/09/2020 09:28

Deff phone ACAS this morning.

They have to give 30 days notice 'consultation period' which could be what they are informing you of today.

If someone else does the same job, same job title, then it's not legal for only one of you to be put on consultation.

They could be offering you reduced hours - again not legal.

You need their criteria for selection, and you should ask them outright today why your colleague has not had the same message. Write down word for word what they say.

You are allowed to bring someone with you to the meeting, a colleague to help take notes if it helps to listen and concentrate a little more.

Don't panic in the meeting. Focus on understanding the situation and ask for a copy of the minutes of the meeting to review (which should be a given).

Good luck, stay calm, phone ACAS.

Felifox · 04/09/2020 09:32

I'm wishing you good luck for today, try to keep yourself calm, take notes and make no commitment. 🤞

Hope you do have legal cover on your household insurance.

Florencex · 04/09/2020 09:33

You are unlikely to find a union that will assist as the situation is already underway, fortunately you do not need to be in a union to deal with this.

As an aside an individual redundancy / consultation meeting is not a disciplinary and therefore you have no right to be accompanied, that would be something the employer may agree to if you request it. If it is a collective redundancy then ether union reps or employee reps should be involved.

I personally have not read anything to suggest that there is discrimination, certainly not sex discrimination as your cover is the same sex and I don’t think there is enough evidence (based on what you have said) to demonstrate that this is anything to do with maternity discrimination either.

What it is though, is unfair. Just plain unfair. As there are two of you doing the same role and they want to reduce from two to one then you should both be at risk and they should be using a set of criteria to score you both against to determine who to keep. I think this is the point you should be pushing.

That said, even if they do decide to do things properly, I think there is a chance they will design the process such as to favour your colleague as they seem to like her, for whatever reason.

SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 09:36

Try contacting pregnantthenscrewed for advice pregnantthenscrewed.com/

I know your emotions are running high but you need to reduce the heat right now. A lot of what you are saying are examples of why your employers are scumbags. Ok so they are awful, I agree. That doesn’t help you. You should only focus on the facts that demonstrate unequal and unfair treatment of you. Everything else will distract from your case. You should rewrite your story based only on facts that pertain to you.

Also (and I know this is hard) you need to recognise that their behaviour is telling you that they just don’t want you any more. So you can fight and argue and maybe even save your job but you cannot get them to like, respect or promote and reward you. So you need an exit plan - just ideally on your terms.

It does sound like you are being and have been discriminated against because you are a mother (indirect sex discrimination). However, proving it is hard and lengthy - years not months. And although you don’t have to have a lawyer, it’s very hard to do without one. Costs will vary but if you go that route be prepared to pay upwards of £1000 per month ongoing. You need to do some maths on what you can afford, what you might get vs what they offer plus any intangible costs of your time and toll on your mental health.

Right now you need to harden up and do fact finding.

Go to this meeting. Take notes. Record it on your phone -but do not tell them this - this is just so you can make sure your notes are accurate, not for sharing with anyone else. Do not agree to anything. Do not sign anything. Try to stay calm. Tell them you need to take advice before you agree to anything. Do not say who from, or when, or on what. Basically say as little as possible. Be as pleasant as you can be (it will unnerve them).

Once you know what they are offering only you can decide if you want it. Or if you want to negotiate or fight. But have your eyes open as to what you are signing up for. Remember - it is no shame to accept an offer and leave quietly. This is your life, your time, your sanity.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 04/09/2020 09:38

[quote Aridane]@Burtiebojangles - I would still join Unite, even if there is a 4 week waiting period. After all, it’s unlikely all to be done and dusted within this period and, if it is / their services are not required, you can cancel your membership

Having it there as a safety net if you need / want to being a claim might give you peace of mind[/quote]
Not the point of the thread but why cancel the membership?
Isn't the point of being in a union that we all collectively pay and support so that there is assistance there when needed?
Isn't this how bosses/employers feel they can get away with treating employees like dispensable shite because we don't have union representation.
I can't bear the type of person that thinks they should only join when they need help.

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 09:38

ACAS have advised much of the same on here. Given the circumstances of people in the job not being considered for redundancy, I have grounds for appeal. If they go ahead anyway, they will offer me legal advice as I can take them to court.

OP posts:
museumum · 04/09/2020 09:41

@Jessicabrassica

I thought it was roles that were made redundant not individuals. If they have decided that they want to return your role to one post rather than two then you should both be equally affected. They are totally fucking you over. Be angry. Go fight!
Yes. This. ROLES are at risk of redundancy not individuals. If they identify they only need one person in the role you both have there must be a fair selection procedure for who gets it.
YouokHun · 04/09/2020 09:41

pregnantthenscrewed.com/

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 09:45

Just a side line, could they turn round and say they have already gone through consideration and scoring and it came out that cover was better or would this have to be done after the initial meeting. I’m just wondering if they could worm their way out of it.

OP posts:
Whenwillthisbeover · 04/09/2020 09:49

Good luck OP, you can do it. Keep us updated. We are all rooting for you.

For those that say join a union, it's like saying shut the gate when the horse is half way down the lane. And as someone who has paid into a union religiously for 35 years and only needed them once it irks me that some people think they can not pay their subs then call on a union when they need one.

A union is an insurance policy, you can't not insure your house then take out a retrospective policy after you've been burgled.

Travel3Ban3 · 04/09/2020 09:50

If you were previously the only person doing your job. How was the work covered for holidays & sickness ? If one person will potentially remain in the job, how will it be covered ? Seems sensible to have 2 people doing the job

TantieTowie · 04/09/2020 09:53

Good luck OP. Reminds me once more what an amazing place Mumsnet can be – all this fantastic advice being given through the night.

Aridane · 04/09/2020 09:58

@TheWordWomanIsTaken

I absolutely agree - was just trying to e plain that it is worth joining a union (and you can always exit)

I have been a member of Unite the Union for the last 4 years - haven’t needed it but it gives me reassurance that they’re there is I do need them

SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 10:00

@Burtiebojangles

ACAS have advised much of the same on here. Given the circumstances of people in the job not being considered for redundancy, I have grounds for appeal. If they go ahead anyway, they will offer me legal advice as I can take them to court.
ACAS cannot provide legal advice and will not support you. Please don’t go into this thinking they are on your side. They are a conciliation service, by definition they are neutral.

And please read my post above about ‘going to court’ - realistically you are looking at a minimum £25000 legal fees by the time you get there, if you get there... can you afford that? Is your potential settlement worth that?

It’s great for all the keyboard drama queens to tell you to fight. But is this what you want to do with your life for the next few years?

Oh and don’t beat yourself up about not being a union member. I paid my subs for years and when push came to shove they were useless.

To think I may be being unfairly made redundant...
Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 10:01

@Travel3Ban3 it was just a case of putting the hours in before to have the work in place whilst you’re away. But with the new company there will be a huge increase in work so I can’t get my head around how they can say there is none. It’s quiet at the minute as things are still on hold which is why I understand the furlough, we’re just keeping it ticking over. As soon as things start up again we’ll have double the work that was too much for me to do alone.

OP posts:
bornninthe80s · 04/09/2020 10:02

Seriously, I am so shat off by mincy-mouthed employers who use "the current climate" and "the downturn" and whatever has been going on for the past 40 neoliberal years to get workers (especially mothers) off their books.

This a million times over!!

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 10:05

@SorryAuntLydia sorry, that was me phrasing it wrong. They’d advise on how we can get legal advice. If it comes to that I will probably talk to citizens advice and see what they say.

OP posts:
SorryAuntLydia · 04/09/2020 10:09

[quote Burtiebojangles]@SorryAuntLydia sorry, that was me phrasing it wrong. They’d advise on how we can get legal advice. If it comes to that I will probably talk to citizens advice and see what they say.[/quote]
No worries. That’s a good idea.

But please do read my pps and really think about what’s right for you.

Good luck.

Juanmorebeer · 04/09/2020 10:09

OP I hope the meeting goes OK. Have you found someone to go in with you?

I had a similar sort of situation a few years back and took someone into a meeting with me, I am so glad I did.

Burtiebojangles · 04/09/2020 10:15

Thank you so much everyone for you kids wishes.

There isn’t really anyone to come to in with me that isn’t management today, except for my cover, but I don’t want that to put me off saying things.

Would I be wrong to say I want my questions answered in writing? E.g. I have a lot of questions that I will send over via email as I want the responses in writing.

I think I have a lot more bottle over keyboard than in person, I don’t want to forget about something I want to say.

OP posts:
DreamingofGinoclock · 04/09/2020 10:18

I know the charity Pregnant and screwed can offer for free may be worth giving them a call

DreamingofGinoclock · 04/09/2020 10:19

pregnantthenscrewed.com/

Lexilooo · 04/09/2020 10:20

You can challenge this OP.

I was at risk of redundancy at my last job, the pool was large so we had employee reps of which I was one. We pushed back hard and challenged everything. One thing we did that is relevant to you is that we examined the figures on workload and capacity and disputed the number of people required for the job. In the end they decided we were right, they did need more people and no redundancies were made as the people who had quit for other jobs reduced staff numbers sufficiently.

Definitely take someone to all meetings as they can take notes, really useful.

BluebellsGreenbells · 04/09/2020 10:27

OP you need your professional head not your emotions.
Have the mind set you are doing this for your best friend and want answers.
Getting emotional will play into their hands.

You can always email afterwards in

I asked X and your replied Y - please clarify y
I suggested A and you gave B as your answer, I don’t accept this blah blah

I will assume you agree with the above unless I hear back by date in two weeks

They will then have to reply to the email or no reply will assume acceptance

Titslikepicassos · 04/09/2020 10:27

Follow every meeting up with emails if it helps OP. I’m terrible for forgetting to mention things in meetings.

Is also very handy to have a paper chain - my company like to lose or falsify minutes.

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