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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Marus Rushford - AIBU?

381 replies

Pr1mr0se · 02/09/2020 07:57

it's admirable that he feels he can raise the topic of school meals and poverty and the campaign seems to be growing wings with the food alliance HOWEVER AIBU to think that given that he is an extremely wealthy footballer with many footballer contacts in similar positions that they should be putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak too?

OP posts:
Camomila · 02/09/2020 13:56

Labour talks a good game on social mobility, but kicks the ladder away for working class kids like I was.

I disagree, I grew up on FSM in the Blair/Brown years. I benefitted from FSM, extra English lessons in school with the other EAL students. I did a term of drama sessions at the local private school, free workshops in half term (all charity funded). I learnt to play the flute (LEA funded). I went to 'gifted and talented' workshops at school. I got EMA at 6th form and a full grant for university.

I doubt poor kids outside of London get half the 'extras' I did.

I'm not a British citizen so can't vote but none of my friends from similar backgrounds (eg, grew up poor but did well at school/professionally) vote for the Tories. We'd be voting to take stuff away that we benefitted from.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 13:59

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SBTLove · 02/09/2020 14:01

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus
I like how you ignore what doesn’t suit you.
I’ve said several time’s what about kids from
homes with parents with MH, addictions, DA victims are they lazy and feckless?
Not everyone has the opportunity to attend grammar school or uni, tbh the whole English education system should be revised as it’s so heavily slanted.

unmarkedbythat · 02/09/2020 14:01

The poor government? Oh my sides. Please keep going, Gilly12345, god knows I could do with the laugh today.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:01

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DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 02/09/2020 14:02

For those that talk about chasing maintenance from absent fathers - I think many people are unaware of how many will not even consider chasing the father for money but they are happy to take money from the government.

🤣🤣 how funny.

When I didn't apply for maintenance it was because I couldn't afford to. Yes, it costs money to apply now.

Then I did and he increased his pension, went to part time and his girlfriend went to full time and he claimed financial responsibility for his new girlfriends kids who live with them, so I get less than the absolute bare minimum. Yet it's on me to make sure our kids are totally provided for without any government subsidies?

Parents would be able to provide better of the government actually recognised there were 2 parents and made them equally responsible for the children they both created.

Let's just blame those of us left to suck up other peoples selfish actions though eh.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:04

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JoolsSchmools · 02/09/2020 14:05

Is that you Jack Monroe?

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:06

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netflixismysidehustle · 02/09/2020 14:10

For those that talk about chasing maintenance from absent fathers - I think many people are unaware of how many will not even consider chasing the father for money but they are happy to take money from the government.

I very much doubt that the number owed maintenance (five figure sums in many cases) outweighs those who don't claim from the other parent willingly.

If I had to hazard a guess as to why someone wouldn't claim child maintenance it's because of fear of violence and we all know how poorly funded the police are.

unmarkedbythat · 02/09/2020 14:12

Labour talks a good game on social mobility, but kicks the ladder away for working class kids like I was.

What about working class kids who were not like you? Working class kids who won't pass an 11+? Do they not deserve a decent life? The right of centre approach to social mobility seems to be "let's cream off those born working class, if they can jump through our hoops we'll let them into our gang". But what about the rest? A left of centre approach is based on the idea that we all have an entitlement to a decent life, that even the poorest should have enough. The lowest rung of the ladder should be a bearable place to be. We should not need social mobility, because it should not require being in a 'higher' social class to have a decent life. As recent events made quite clear, it is those undertaking the jobs society writes off as unskilled and unworthy of decent remuneration which keep the whole thing going.

Being working class should not be something one has to seek to leave behind to enjoy a good quality of life.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:21

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unmarkedbythat · 02/09/2020 14:31

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus

Do they not deserve a decent life?

Again, has anyone actually written this? If people were able to distinguish between what is actually stated and what an Evil Tory (TM) is expected to say, there might be less frothing all round.

There are plenty of people who make money from trade, starting a business or moving overseas to take advantage of other markets - none of which requires any formal qualifications. (I’m kind of hoping DS takes up plumbing...) It’s self-evident so I am not exactly sure what your point is.

I was academic, got good grades and had no capital to risk. I didn’t think “I want to be middle class”, I just hated being poorer than everyone else. So I think social mobility in that sense is essential. It’s inevitable that people try to better themselves.

It would be much easier to have this conversation, RunningAwaywiththeCircus, if you would engage in good faith and not be so needlessly aggressive.

If people were able to distinguish between what is actually stated and what an Evil Tory (TM) is expected to say, there might be less frothing all round.

Indeed. Come back when you can take your own advice, maybe?

JamieLeeCurtains · 02/09/2020 14:36

It would be much easier to have this conversation, RunningAwaywiththeCircus, if you would engage in good faith and not be so needlessly aggressive.

I really don't think it's worth engaging at all tbh.

Interesting to see cages rattled though.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:38

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RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:39

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RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:44

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Tellmetruth4 · 02/09/2020 14:46

I feel sorry for him and his family for what the British press will do to him. As you can see from this thread no good deed goes unpunished and they will get revenge for him embarrassing the government.

They’ll be watching him like a hawk for every mistake and offering money to friends for stories on him and his loved ones.

A young man tries to do some good so others try to tear him down. It’s a common and sick part of our culture.

BallOfString · 02/09/2020 14:52

What helped me escape poverty was grammar schools (hated by the left)

The trouble with this is that grammars only ever helped 20% of kids, and over half of those in grammars were from middle class families, so that's a small percentage of kids being helped to escape poverty.

My dad was a miner's son and from a town where there were few options for boys apart from mining. He passed the 11+ along with one other boy in his year, ended up in a decent white collar job. Of the other dozen or so boys in his primary class who went to secondary modern, all but a couple became miners, then mostly long term unemployed after pit closures.

Grammar school changed my dad's life but he was always opposed the grammar system because he felt angry and guilty that he had (as he said) fluked the 11+ pass, at least 2 or 3 others expected to pass but didn't, and others might have been later developers. But none of them had much of a chance after 'failing' to prove themselves in one exam at the age of 11. And that was in the days before the 11+ tutoring industry. I've not seen stats for the areas which still have grammars but would be interested to know what percentage these days come from genuinely poor/working class households.

I do understand that it was a route out of poverty for some, but it also threw so many on the scrapheap at such a young age. This is why the left dislike selective education. It's nothing to do with resenting people for bettering themselves, it's because grammars are such a flawed system that can only help a small number. A good comprehensive school will get its brightest kids to the best universities, but also provide opportunities for less academic kids to develop the skills that will give them fulfilling lives too. But obviously that requires decent funding of facilities, buildings, books, equipment, staff, etc, which have been lacking in recent years.

JamieLeeCurtains · 02/09/2020 14:54

The sort of people who have a pop at Marcus Rashford include Katie Hopkins. This from the summer:

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/katie-hopkins-twitter-marcus-rashford-school-meals-van-aanholt-a9568806.html

Didn't she get banned from Twitter? Hope she's not haunting the hallowed halls of Mumsnet. But I daresay we attract all sorts on here because it's a massive platform, and it's anonymous.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 14:58

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RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 02/09/2020 15:03

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JamieLeeCurtains · 02/09/2020 15:05

Meanwhile, while Katie Hopkins was spouting her bile, somebody read the room for an 'unaware' Boris Johnson, who managed to praise Marcus Rashford when directly asked about it.

metro.co.uk/2020/06/16/boris-thanks-marcus-rashford-causing-government-u-turn-free-school-meals-12861703/

BallOfString · 02/09/2020 15:53

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus I don't know much about technical schools, but there's still the issue of people being stuck on a particular pathway from the result of one exam at age 11, and that's before you even take tutoring into account. But I'd love to see more focus on technical skills in education as a whole. In my dc's school the 'unacademic' options were travel/tourism, business studies and food tech. I think they should be offering things that could lead on to, say, apprenticeships (e.g. in construction industries) but also if someone turns out to have an academic aptitude for tech subjects they could go back onto a more academic path and go onto things like engineering degrees. A comprehensive system could do this really well, because they should be offering options for all abilities and the chance to move between pathways. I think as a country we need to re-think education, both in terms of allowing children of all abilities to fulfil their potential, but also in terms of meeting the needs of our modern economy.

Regarding getting people out of poverty, I think I've read that if you compare grammars with the top 20% of students in comprehensives (ie the ones who would have passed the 11+), then comps easily outperform grammars. So a comprehensive system should have got you out of poverty too - along with a lot more others.

Dastardlythefriendlymutt · 02/09/2020 16:17

Parents would be able to provide better of the government actually recognised there were 2 parents and made them equally responsible for the children they both created.

This.

The UK maintenance system seems heavily skewed toward non-resident parents (mostly men) and leaving all the responsibility on the resident parent (almost always women). Those that pay, pay a pittance and use so many stupid excuses to avoid paying more. Let's be honest - if the CMS system worked properly, most men could ill afford a second family until their oldest children became adults -which is actually the way it should be. I'd like to see them raise a family (rent, food, bills, transport) on £40 a week (which also suggests the resident parent should provide £40 a week as their half to cover everything. I don't know anyone who can support an entire family on £80 a week).

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