Ds packing his bags

[Greycurtiansarenaff]

I'm having a bloody crap week and tonight ds9 has sent me over the edge.

I sent him and his brother to bed at 9pm, but they both snuck their tablets so I confiscated them both along with their playstation and switch, which has then resulted in ds throwing a major fit smashing both mine and his brothers phones.
He's been shooting nerf gun bullets at me for 30 mins saying I'm the worst parent in the world, he hates me and i don't care and his dad is the only parent that shows him love and he wants to live with him. His dad hasn't seen them since June and has called twice in that time, making promises of all the things he's going to do
Ds has called him 6 times and messaged him twice which of course have all gone unanswered, he's packed his bags is fully clothed and is sat waiting for a man that isn't going to turn up. His dad isn't going to take him tonight or any other night as he is due to have a baby with his girlfriend pretty soon, which neither of the DC know about.

I don't really know what to do or to say to him
do I tell him he isn't coming or just leave him to eventually fall asleep upset and only to wake up disappointed again? Also do I say anything about their new sibling, as it doesn't look like their dad is going to tell them.

Where is the Father's family in all of this? Do they not take an interest in their Grandsons/nephews lives too? Sounds like they need to step up as well.

(big hugs to you of course, tough day!).

@famousforwrongreason he gets lots of love and cuddles, he's in my bed most mornings chatting about what to do for the day and is one of the most loving funny little boys you'll ever meet.
I know he's hurt and confused, but I cannot take the smashing up of our home anymore.

I have been the only constant in their lives and it hurts to the core when your 9 year old screams that you don't love him or tell him that you care, when you're the one who kisses them every night and says I love you before they go to sleep.

He's taking his anger at his dad out on you. Because you are the 'safe parent', the one he knows deep down is not going to walk away. You're his 'soft place to land'.

But that's not to say that you have to be a punching bag or let him get away with bad behaviour. I think family counseling is in order, for all 3 of you. I don't know exactly how you access it in the UK, though. Here we'd just google 'family counselors near me' or check with our insurance company. Maybe start with your family GP?

Taking devices away from kids at bedtime is not a particularly good move

Strange comment. There is plenty of evidence that devices in rooms worsens sleep. Many children that age are not allowed devices in their room which seems sensible. It is bedtime. They can read and go to sleep. Especially if they are being shitty.

It sounds like he is really angry and trying to work out how to express that (and it is currently being done poorly!) Have you had a chat when he is not angry about why he is so angry and talk through ways of managing that? I know it sounds silly but even things like kids meditation might help? I also agree he really needs to talk to CAMHS about how he is feeling about things otherwise I would worry the violence might escalate 😕

Don't back down on the tablet/devices. Tell him you love him no matter what and will always be there for him. Leave him to sleep and deal with his grief about his dad not coming in private.
When you feel like you're not good enough for someone (the dad) to love you, you push people who do love you (you, OP) because you think a) they must be wrong for loving you and b) that if you push them to a certain point, they will give up on you too. He's testing you.
Tell him you won't give up (or give in with rules!) and it's not his fault his Dad has chosen to do this. And that some parents just aren't good at being parents!

Their family are shit, if I don't call them or take them to visit then they don't bother, then have the cheek to slag me off to all that will listen that I don't allow them any access.

On a normal weekday they wouldn't be allowed their playstation & switch anyway as I've never allowed them to have it on a school night. They're usually allowed 30 mins after school on their and sometimes they choose to have an audiobook on in the evening on them in bed, but due to the lockdown they've been on them more so im in the process of slowly removing them and going back to our old routine, which I've discussed with them.

*on their tablets

Oh op I haven't anything very useful to add but such a tough one. Hope he's fallen asleep ok now.

If its any consolation, my DS aged 8 is displaying entirely similar behaviour currently and it always happens after I've removed his phone etc for poor behaviour.

His stock line is "I want to live with my dad" yet he knows this isn't possible.
His dad feeds him all the shit that it is possible and can happen, but never picks up the phone to him, has seen him half a dozen times in 6 months and actually is barely capable of looking after himself let alone DCs - already established from eldest living with him for approx 18mths.

I've realised now he is trying to find out how hard he has to push before I flip and call his dad to take him away. And deep down he knows that will never happen, its so sad, and I wait for him to calm down, hug him tight and explain it again, along with the reason for the original punishment.

Hang in then,this is not a reflection on you xx

So tough for you all. But don’t tell your son about his dad’s new baby etc. He’ll be upset and you’ll get the anger that should be directed at his dad. Hope you sleep soon

Tell your sons about their dad's new baby. It's better for them to learn it from you than by accident.
My mother would have destroyed the Nerf gun. It is NEVER acceptable to shoot a play gun at any living thing. He has shown he can't play with the toy in a safe manner.
Don't let him say disrespectful things to you. Accepting this behavior sets a dangerous precident for bullying and later domestic violence. Shut him in a space where he can rage safely, and don't let him out until he apologizes. Sit outside the door, reminding him that you love him, but not his current behavior.

Op, I hope you would have sorted the problem by now but from a single mum to a single mum...

It is natural to try to find reasons for bad behaviour and over compensate for a divorce but I have found out that asking myself “what would I do/say if his dad and I were still married?” does really help when it comes to unreasonable behaviours. In this case I would suggest to let him cry this tantrum out as at his age whatever you tell to him will make things much worse. When he has calmed down, then you have the conversation where you explain the reasons of your actions, point out how extreme his behaviour was and yes, he needs to face the consequences of his own actions: he goes without a phone or the tablet, until you can comfortably afford to buy replacements for you and your other son. You remind him how much you love him AFTER you deal with the bad behaviour, not before. Children need lots of love but also clear rules and boundaries.

He also needs to understand violence towards you will NOT be tolerated, and this is something you really need to nip in the bud, at this time you are stronger than him but in three years time he can move from shooting you with a nerf gun to give you a good beating. Violence towards parents is rarely talked about but I assure you it is more prevalent than you may imagine, so it will be better to gain that respect Back while you have some control and before he gets taller than you.

With regards to his dad... if you know that he is not known for his abilities to connect with his children and deal with their emotional wellbeing, do not believe for a second that he would be able to deliver the news of the new baby without causing further heartache for your kids. It is true he should be telling his kids himself but if he is going to do it in a painful way, forget about what is fair and do what is right by breaking the news kindly to them yourself.

Raising boys as a single mum is a very challenging thing to do (you need a village and all that), they need a lot of love and reassurance, particularly if the father has lost interest but they also need lots of structure, routines, rules and to know these rules would be applied fairly, no exception. The love helps their self esteem, structure makes them feel safe.

Best of luck!

@Carouselfish

Don't back down on the tablet/devices. Tell him you love him no matter what and will always be there for him. Leave him to sleep and deal with his grief about his dad not coming in private. When you feel like you're not good enough for someone (the dad) to love you, you push people who do love you (you, OP) because you think a) they must be wrong for loving you and b) that if you push them to a certain point, they will give up on you too. He's testing you. Tell him you won't give up (or give in with rules!) and it's not his fault his Dad has chosen to do this. And that some parents just aren't good at being parents!

This.

He is pushing you to make you prove you will or wont walk away. He has really big mistrust and needs help to deal with that. 50% of the people he trusted have let him down, so its only time before the other 50% does too, right?

Relate now offer family counselling, and it will be quicker than waiting for CAMHS. Or if you can afford it, a private family therapist.

You are doing the right thing by staying strong and not giving in to them. Tomorrow talk to the both together and explain why you have taken the tablets etc off them. I would explain that loving someone means having to follow through when the rules get broken. It might be an idea to get them to make some rules with you. They will be doing this at school for class rules and kids are great at thinking up rules and boundaries. Post them up in the house somewhere as a reminder. Make sure at least one of them is for you. Talk about what it would be like if you didn’t have rules. If you drive get them to think about that first - what would it be like if we had no rules on the road?

I would tell them about the baby but perhaps get a book about having a baby in the family. I really think it is their father’s job to tell them. Doesn’t he have set days for contact? I would use lots of opportunities to tell them how much you love them in the next month or so.

They might feel apprehensive about going back to school too. Make sure you talk about it. I would inform the school as they may have access to some counselling or at least push for the calms. Barnado’s are very good if they are working in your area. I have a friend who works for them and she said their training is extremely good. She was a TA and a teacher before she joined them.
Could you plan something like a movie night with popcorn at the weekend? Something to do as a family and perhaps let him select the film( within reason, maybe a choice from three) so you can snuggle up with them. I would try and get them out for a long walk tomorrow. Kids will often open up on a walk and tell you things.

It is sad how many fathers don’t bother to follow through. Kids really feel that and anger is one of the emotions which they find difficult. They can be quite frightened of their own anger when they get out of control. Their is a short book about anger for kids. If you looked up emotions for kids it should come up on something like amazon. I can’t remember the name of the author but I have used it with children. It is a good starting point to talk about our feelings. I’ll come back tomorrow and post if I can find mine.
Good luck and try and stay calm. Fair and firm. It is hard work being a parent.

I'm really sorry that your going through this and you are doing everything right by trying to keep boundaries and still being there for him. All this behaviour is of your exes making and he is causing alot of hurt and distress for your son. My daughters dad left and completely cut dd who was 11 then out. She took it out on me as she didn't know what else to do with her anger, she would hit and throw things at me, she is alot better now and manages her feelings better now she's slightly older she's told me how angry she is at her father. Sorry I dont have any advice hang in there and try to emotionally distance from the behaviour.

@earsup

A 9 year old smashing phones and kicking doors in...my parents would have locked me in the cellar or the van they had after a severe whack...I was locked in the van once for some hours when I played up.!

Yeah, that’ll really make things better, locking a kid in a van.

What MrsTerryPratchett said.

You need to tell the boys about their soon to be half sibling. Their dad won't.

If their dad is completely unreliable and tries to poison the boys against you, then tell him he is finished with the boys. He can go to court for access if he wants it. Tell him that. A court ordered access agreement will require compliance form him or he can be done for contempt of court.
Pull off the plaster. The 'will he/won't he' guessing game is horribly damaging to the boys.

Don't do this without accompanying family therapy.

Do not wait for CAMHS or preCAMHS. You need a better style of communicating. You all need help dealing with the fallout of the waste of space who is the boys' 'father'. The boys need help processing massive amounts of grief and anger and shame about their dad.

www.aft.org.uk/view/index.html?tzcheck=1

You can do it online.

Don't put it off. Keeping on going the way you are all going now will not yield a different result from what you experienced tonight. If you want a different result you are going to have to try a different approach. This situation is one that requires professional support and guidance.

Taking devices away from kids at bedtime is not a particularly good move

evidence says otherwise that tech should not be given before bedtime.

OP I’d have done what you’ve done, no tech before bed and if they snuck the tech in they would loose it for 48 hours as a result, my kids are aware of this and they are 11 and 14, they hate it, but there emotional, mental and physical well-being proves that they are so much more rested because of it.

I’d punish for the behaviour, breaking expensive items and damaging furniture and hitting you with items is completely unacceptable.

At the same time however I’d be rewarding positive behaviours, spending more time with him doing activities he enjoys etc... explaining what is appropriate and non appropriate behaviour.

At 9 also you need to have a chat about his Dad not visiting etc... as he’s clearly a child who is missing his dad and is confused about his relationship with his father.

However, as pp suggested I would not hug or snuggle up to him tonight as I would be appalled by his behaviour.

He’s a miserable and probably scared and confused NINE year old. But yes, let him stew in that and learn how to be a real man.. or something.

Your son has been rejected by one of the two people in the world who are supposed to love him unconditionally. He would definitely benefit from counseling, but I know that is easier said than done.

He needs to know that he can rely on you. He needs to know that you won’t reject him too so he is testing you. I would establish a structured family routine and give the kids as much attention as you can manage. Praise good behavior, creative ideas, funny jokes, or basically anything good and positive that he does. Try to tailor punishments as a natural consequence of misbehavior and keep it short. He needs as much positive reinforcement and love as you can give him.

The answer to "you don't love me" is "i love you very much. It's because I love you so much that I have these rules to help you grow into a well balanced adult. If I didn't care, I'd let you do what you want because that would be easier than these arguments, but I love you so I'm going to be a good parent. I know it's hard for you sometimes"

It looks as if you’re getting some sleep, which is good. I only have a daughter. But I agree that this behaviour needs to be dealt with now before he is bigger and stronger than you. My dd is 12 now and sure knows how to escalate things and a lot of the boys her age are definitely physically stronger than me.

I agree that your ds is testing you and will continue to do so. I hope he is calmer tomorrow. What I have always told my dd is that I always love her even when I am angry with her or when she is upset with me. Nothing will stop me. So the I hate you was always countered with I love you. We have an agreement that however upset or cross we are with one another, even if I’m shouting, she can always ask me for a hug. When she was younger, I repeated that I loved her often and made up the silly phrase that if she didn’t exist, I would have invented her. Idk how old she was but I could ask her the question of what would I do if she didn’t exist and she would tell me the answer. Now that she has a phone, we text little emojis, I can write and tell her how proud I am of her and how much I love her. As your dcs have these already, you can send them little love texts too and remind them why you are so proud of them. I’m a very tactile person, so I stroke her hair and kiss her on the forehead a lot.

It sounds as if you have a big heart. One thing I’ve learned is that your dc will deeply hurt you and tell you they don’t love you and all manner of things. I know it hurts terribly. When it first happened, I made a decision that I knew dd would say all manner of things to me, consequently, I wouldn’t get upset as I expect her to say things as I know she is letting off steam. If you act wounded with them, it will only increase their guilt, pain and shame, which will make the outbursts more likely to happen or for them to retreat into their shell.

As for the punishment, I agree removing tech for a week is a terribly long time. Dds friend had her tablet taken away from her for 6 weeks once and that didn’t work either. Consequences, especially natural ones work better and if your dcs know what they are, they will be easier to accept. With dd when she was younger and more volatile, removal of her most favourite item at that particular moment was 24 hours and a week for serious offences, such as violence. For her it was her prized shoes or a doll. It sounds as if it could be tech for your ds.

I think tomorrow is a fresh day and that you should be looking to ways you can apologise for making mistakes and for their father being flaky and you will never be like this with them. They need the message repeated that you are constant. If you model good behaviour, it will give your ds the ability to model it too. Then talk about how sad you are that your ds got so upset that he did x and y. And that you’re here to talk and cuddle because you are so sad when you see him so very upset and you want to help. Then tell your ds that at the moment, having the nerf gun is a bad idea and you are going to keep it safe for him until your ds can show he is able to treat you well - natural consequence. I’d use it as a symbol of his behaviour and maybe you can eventually make it into a little in joke between you about not getting it back until he’s 21 at this rate. Anything to to take the tension off. After you’ve had a chat, do aright, what fantastic thing shall we do today? Or I’ve planned x. Above all else, try and do something fun today as a family to get past the upset from last night and tell them you’ll give them the tablets back for half an hour this evening or failing that tomorrow morning.

As for the comments from other people, my suggestion is a sticking plaster for now and will work if consistent. But it does sound as if your ds, perhaps both your ds’s need some therapy and you’ve had some great suggestions. I do hope you have your family to support you. Being a single parent sounds like a lonely place and one, which requires very robust mental health so make sure you find a little bit of you time as well.

Thé sibling thing - the messenger gets shot.

But for the rest - Dad being fucking useless. Don't sugar coat it. Be sympathetic but honest.

Go through the out of the fog website. Some of it would be good for the kids to read. Try and find good counseling. Tell your ex some home truths.

@Jeremyironsnothing
That’s very good advice, I’m going to use that wording next time (it’s what I want to convey, but can never put into appropriate words). Thanks.

I am just backing up everyone’s great advice and also saying how really difficult this sounds, that your ex sounds like a shitbag (who the fuck waltzes in and out of two little kids lives like this, it’s so blatantly setting them up to be hurt and confused and in emotional pain from rejection, and now he’s going to inflict this special brand of utterly crap parenting on another poor innocent child. I wonder does his pregnant gf think about the fact that he is so obviously already completely neglectful of two innocent little children when she thinks about how her and her new baby’s life is going to be). You are doing an amazing job and they will, they WILL come to appreciate it (I was just saying to my dm yesterday that it was time to admit she was right about many things, I mean I’m 40 so 30 years may be a long wait but you’ll get there).

When my parents split up with various issues that I won’t bother getting into, it really did cause a huge and overwhelming pain that seemed to manifest itself in rage. Counselling really, really helped me process things, and in fact at two further times in my life I have gone back to therapy and been amazed at the hurt/grief/pain that surged out. The last time was when I moved back to my home town/country for the first time since 18 and had RAGE at my whole family - it took me a year to work out that it was just because returning to the ‘scene of the crime’ as it were had raised so many old hurts that I had buried. It was insane how they came out as such intense anger (I’m not normally an angry person). An amazing counsellor, who had in fact worked for/with NSPCC for years helped me just vent enough and then process the feelings underneath. A lot was about rejection. I was amazed by how much my general ‘life rage’ disappeared after a while.

Just huge respect to you as well, it’s so not fair but you do sound like a wonderful mum who they’re so lucky to have, imagine if they had two shit parents in the mould of your ex.