The alphabet and 'H'.

[Thatbliddywoman]

So we say
Ay.
Bee
Sea
Dee
Ee
Eff
Jee
Aitch. Except we don't. We say 'Haitch'.
Why?
We make the aitch have its own letter as the sound of the word for it
We don't do that with any other letter. Why H?
We don't say 'wubbleyew' do we, It's 'doubleyew'?
I don't understand it.

haitch is an abomination IMO

Where YOU live.

As Frank McNally's article & @MindyStClaire explain well, 'haitch' is how it's pronounced in Ireland, and 'aitch' would sound odd.

However, because I have the ability to understand things are different in other places, I've no problem understanding that in the UK, it's mostly 'aitch', which isn't wrong, it's how people speak in that country. 🤨

Why is so hard to understand that different English-speaking areas have different accents & ways to pronounce words, and this attitude of superiority that only this way we do it in the UK is correct is beyond galling 😡

@MindyStClaire

Nothing like a H thread to get my blood pressure up.

As others have said, it's a dialect thing. Haitch is correct in Ireland. As has also been explained, it's a shibboleth in NI as people tend to fall into one of two camps - Catholic/Nationalist/Irish/haitch or Protestant/Unionist/British/Aitch.

Perhaps those who can't stand haitch to the extent expressed on this thread might want to consider why something Irish is seen as so unacceptable?

Yes, this and the related perception that haitch is 'common'.

It surprises me again in 2020 to find so many people so comfortable with their own snobbery and bigotry.

'Wrong', 'dreadful', 'makes my teeth itch'.

(RP-speaking aitch-sayer here)

*It surprises me again and again. So much so that I missed out part of my sentence.

@BGirlBouillabaisse

Which is weird, because my family is Irish Catholic and I say aitch.

Do you live in Ireland though?

It's an accent, a form of English (in this case Hiberno-English), rather than 'something in your blood' 😐

@Doccomplaint

It’s so culturally ingrained in NI and I find the attitude to haitch In this thread offensive and colonialist.

Yup.

I just can't get over that people can't understand that people from different areas may pronounce words differently.

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@Doccomplaint

It’s so culturally ingrained in NI and I find the attitude to haitch In this thread offensive and colonialist.

Yup.

I just can't get over that people can't understand that people from different areas may pronounce words differently. [/quote]
Yip.

Why why why is it allowed on here? A whole thread mocking and disparaging an accent pronunciation that has existed for a thousand of years. It wouldn’t be acceptable if it was mocking an Indian accent or a Chinese accent so why is it ok if it’s Irish?

@EarringsandLipstick

haitch is an abomination IMO

Where YOU live.

As Frank McNally's article & @MindyStClaire explain well, 'haitch' is how it's pronounced in Ireland, and 'aitch' would sound odd.

However, because I have the ability to understand things are different in other places, I've no problem understanding that in the UK, it's mostly 'aitch', which isn't wrong, it's how people speak in that country. 🤨

Why is so hard to understand that different English-speaking areas have different accents & ways to pronounce words, and this attitude of superiority that only this way we do it in the UK is correct is beyond galling 😡

Agree.

I wonder if the same people find their teeth itching when other letters are pronounced differently in other forms of English - like 'z' or 'w'. Or is it that snide digs at the Irish are the only acceptable form of bigotry.

Why why why is it allowed on here? A whole thread mocking and disparaging an accent pronunciation that has existed for a thousand of years. It wouldn’t be acceptable if it was mocking an Indian accent or a Chinese accent so why is it ok if it’s Irish?

I don't disagree, but I think probably people don't necessarily see it like that? (ie that they are mocking another country's accent). Which I still find galling! To them, it's 'wrong' because they don't pronounce it like that. They're not able to see that apart at all from UK regional variations, there's a whole country that speaks differently and pronounces words / a letter a certain way, without any negative connotations being attached.

I can't actually believe there are 6 pages on such a non-issue. Why the hell are people so bloody judgemental about regional dialects?

I've never even thought this was a thing. There are better hills to die on than one about pronunciation. God MN is weird.

'aitch' is the name of the letter H
h is the sound

@derxa

'aitch' is the name of the letter H h is the sound

Unless you’re Irish or speak with a different regional or national accent.

Growing up, I was told 'aitch' was common and as it's a consonant it should not have the article 'an', which is reserved for the vowels. I still find it a little jarring when I come across it in text but as previous posters have mentioned, it's one of the lovely differences in English by region. My foreign language students aren't bothered by it and simply pick an option and go with it.

The only letter I do change in my own pronunciation when when teaching or spelling out words to foreigners is the letter 'R'. I grew up saying 'oar' - as does everyone where I'm from - and that confuses the hell out of people.

Do you say 'oar' or 'aar'?

Just to clarify, my foreign language students are 'English as a foreign language' students.

'Aitch' is in the dictionary; 'haitch' is not (so fucking far, although I'm sure that wretched day is coming). I've lost the battle with my sons for 'toilet' but I'm fucked if I'm losing the war with 'haitch'. Not in this house.

I use both but couldn't give a damn tbh. People who judge me or others because of a pronunciation are not my people anyway. Life's too short for that shit.

@FOKKYFC

'Aitch' is in the dictionary; 'haitch' is not (so fucking far, although I'm sure that wretched day is coming). I've lost the battle with my sons for 'toilet' but I'm fucked if I'm losing the war with 'haitch'. Not in this house.

What's so threatening about 'haitch' (or 'toilet', for that matter)? I'd quite like you to articulate that. (I appreciate you'll probably tell me the post is 'lighthearted', but your tone isn't, really).

It's nothing to do with regions. Loads of people down here in the SE say 'haitch'; loads don't. I don't find it more or less annoying depending upon where in the country someone is from.

It isn't lighthearted, no. Where did you get that idea?

@FOKKYFC

It isn't lighthearted, no. Where did you get that idea?

Because if it’s not lighthearted, you’re a racist.

Ha! Brilliant. Which race, pray?

[quote ForrestTrump]Apparently, we've been saying "haitch" for almost a thousand years.

In Britain, H owes its name to the Normans, who brought their letter "hache" with them in 1066. Hache is the source of our word "hatchet": probably because a lower-case H looks a lot like an axe. It has certainly caused a lot of trouble over the years. A century ago people dropping their h's were described in the Times as "h-less socialists." In ancient Rome, they were snooty not about people who dropped their Hs but about those who picked up extra ones. Catullus wrote a nasty little poem about Arrius (H'arrius he called him), who littered his sentences with Hs because he wanted to sound more Greek. Almost two thousand years later we are still split, and pronouncing H two ways: "aitch", which is posh and "right"; and "haitch", which is not posh and thus "wrong". The two variants used to mark the religious divide in Northern Ireland – aitch was Protestant, haitch was Catholic, and getting it wrong could be a dangerous business.

www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2013/nov/04/letter-h-contentious-alphabet-history-alphabetical-rosen[/quote]
Idk how Hache was pronounced by the Normans but now it would be “ache” so it could be argued we’ve been saying aitch for almost a millenia. This isn’t negated because hatchet was developed from the root. Spelling only started to be homogenised about 400 years ago in Britain and 1000 years is more than enough time for words to be disassociated from one another.

I say aitch. Dd has been taught haitch at school due to regional dialect.

@FOKKYFC

Ha! Brilliant. Which race, pray?

The Irish. For a start.

So to you the way Irish people speak is unacceptable? Do you not see a problem with that?

'Aitch' is correct and 'haitch' is not. 'Toilet' also sounds bloody awful but it's widely-used and a completely acceptable alternative, so I've reluctantly given up on that one. Principally because the people on my race-relations course said I had to.