The alphabet and 'H'.

[Thatbliddywoman]

So we say
Ay.
Bee
Sea
Dee
Ee
Eff
Jee
Aitch. Except we don't. We say 'Haitch'.
Why?
We make the aitch have its own letter as the sound of the word for it
We don't do that with any other letter. Why H?
We don't say 'wubbleyew' do we, It's 'doubleyew'?
I don't understand it.

It's the English language, though. And should be spelt the English way.

The utter ignorance on this thread is staggering.

Earlier in the thread I defended people, thinking that they weren't putting down Irish pronunciation, they just didn't realise.

Well, I take it all back, particularly after reading @Prettybluepigeons unbelievable post:

It might be the way the word is pronounced in the local accent but that doesn't make it correct!

'Local accent' eh? So all of Ireland is a local part of the UK, is it? Colonialism is thriving it appears.

@SerenDippitty

I also get really irritated when people "correct" DS or me if we say "what". Hate the word pardon. I was taught to say "what".

I say “Sorry?” if I haven’t caught what someone said. “What?” sounds abrupt, bordering on rude, to me.

It's bloody rude to correct someone's speech, it doesn't matter how right you think you are - if you understand what they are saying that's enough - unless you are their parent or educator.

Both are correct depending upon where you come from. It's not hard to understand, although there are plenty of people on this thread who are clearly struggling.

👏👏👏

Exactly Boing

Does anyone recall the 2019 Santa v Father Christmas discussion. I think it ended badly.

My post at 1124 'un-bolded' my quote from @FlySheMust

Just want to be clear, it wasn't my words!

It's the English language, though. And should be spelt the English way

Ugh I hate ‘haitch’. It’s as bad as ‘idear’.
“I’ve just had an idear”
“No, you haven’t, you’ve had an i-dee-ah”

I used to work taking information over the phone. If you say ‘aitch’ people hear A and if you add the ‘h’ to make it ‘haitch’ people are more likely hear it properly.
We used the phonetic alphabet too but I have said ‘aitch for hotel’ and had the person reply ‘A’ too many times to count. Now I say it automatically.

Yes I would be pissed office someone corrected my speech. My dad was an old school English teacher so I would get it a lot but can’t remember being corrected about haitch/aitch.

Re what / sorry: generally, 'what' regarded as really rude here, and kids are always corrected to 'sorry' / 'pardon' / 'excuse me'

I don't have any views on people using 'what' instead but it's (once again) not universally correct.

Mnhq responded to my report of this thread at 8am and said they’d take a look.

They replied again at 10.02.

It’s now almost 11.30.

🤷‍♀️

I say aitch, it was drummed into me as a child that this was the 'correct' way. Since then, my training as a linguist has led me away from prescriptivism.

However, I don't understand the rest of your OP. All the consonants have names that are not the same as the sound that letter makes. Unless you meet people (as I sometimes did as a secondary school teacher) who still pronounce the letters as when they were taught phonics in reception. C, for example doesn't make the sound 'cee', it makes either a /k/ or an /s/ sound. All the vowels have several pronunciations of which the long one in the name is usually not the most common. None of the consonants make the same sound as their name. People single out h as a marker of class/education/religion becuase it has alternate pronunciations, but it's just like all the other letters in that the sound it makes in a word is not the same as the name of the letter. It's unique in that it's sometimes aspirated and sometimes not, depending on the word and accent, but in no way unique regarding its name.

"And should be spelt the English way."

I bet you get really annoyed when americans spell it color, don't you?

(Despite the fact that the American spelling is actually closer to the latin origin of the word whilst the our variant came about because of french influences later).

The fact is, languages and spellings are such a mishmash of cultures and origins and are consistently evolving, so to go around insisting one way is correct is utter nonsense. What is correct is merely what is correct in one part of the world at one particular time defined by social convention. Nothing more.

@Doccomplaint

I'll be amazed if they do anything 🤷🏻‍♀️ I find that any anti-Irish posts here are ignored & left stand, with the odd particularly offensive post deleted.

What is correct is merely what is correct in one part of the world at one particular time defined by social convention.

@BoingBoingyBoing

I like your style. Agree 💯

Does anyone say N Haitch S?

I’m really disappointed @EarringsandLipstick.

@WestendVBroadway

Does anyone say N Haitch S?

Me.

@WestendVBroadway

Does anyone say N Haitch S?

Me too.

I'm Catholic from the North of Ireland and I say Haitch even though of course I know the correct pronunciation is Aitch. It's kind of cultural. My DH was Protestant (he turned when we married) from East Belfast and he says Haitch too since he's been around me for so long.😂

I wonder if 'what?' is supposedly U because it's rude and abrupt? Signalling the user is of a status where they don't need to beg anyone's pardon?

Phrowzunn, I'd be curious to know if/where you've heard 'idear' at the end of a sentence, with nothing coming after it.

Back to the main debate, the 'local accent' comment gasted my flabber too. I had absolutely no idea people - youngish people (I bet a lot of the people on this thread are younger then me) still think in these class-bound, colonial ways.

@alittleprivacy

No it's not! It might be the way the word is pronounced in the local accent but that doesn't make it correct!

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! It is is 100% correct in Hiberno-English, just like "color" is 100% correct in American-English. Denying that is ethnically based prejudice and insistence of your own ethnic superiority. Which is really, really not ok.

Yes, exactly!

The colonial superior mindset is well and truly alive I see.

I always thought accusations of anti-Irish sentiment on MN were just overblown hyperbole but this thread has really opened my eyes (and raised my blood pressure.)

We make the aitch have its own letter as the sound of the word for it
We don't do that with any other letter. Why H?
We don't say 'wubbleyew' do we, It's 'doubleyew’
I don't understand it.

Even in your own OP you use

Ay
Bee
Dee

So yeah, we do do that for some other letters.

I would also use gee instead of jee for G.

See also

I
Jay
Kay
Oh
Pee
Queue
Tee
Bee
Vee
Zed

I would also use gee instead of jee for G. Phonetically though g is guh not juh. Gee is juh ee which is o of the reasons I adore teachers for teaching phonics so I don't have to.

Haitch for me

Does anyone say N Haitch S
Yes.