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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not want to do hours of unpaid work

97 replies

needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 11:41

I'm pretty sure i'm not being unreasonable but maybe I am or someone can help me get out this situation.
In short, I run a very small consultancy (just me). A distant family friend runs the sort of business I help out. About 5 months ago this friends elderly mother died, not unexpectedly she had been ill for a long time. Right up to her death she helped out a lot with the business (was originally hers) and after she died family friend asked for some help getting things in order as things had slid whilst she was ill. I said off course and spent many hours with him helping him improve what was being done.
Over the last 4 months I have answered every call and helped in anyway I can but its starting to get a bit much. He is now expecting me to essentially manage the business for him, in the last week he has called asking me to deal with a crisis (expecting me to interrupt time allocated to a paying client), sent me a pile of expenses to analyse where we can cut costs and given my number to his staff and asked them to call me with any problems. I lost a lot of work due to corona so currently have the time to be dealing with these things but I can't help feeling a little put out.
Anyway the AIBU would be am I being unreasonable to tell family friend that whilst I was happy to help sort out the immediate mess after his mums death if he would like me to continue to help and manage aspects of the business he needs to pay me? I wouldn't necessarily charge my standard rate but at least a token offering would be appreciated since my income has dropped almost 50% since January.

OP posts:

zingally · 01/09/2020 13:42

You absolutely need to cut this off, or start charging!

You say he's quite a lot older than you... and his mum died. Well, without sounding cruel, she was probably pretty elderly, and that's what all elderly people do. They die.
Assuming this man is well into middle-age, it's not unreasonable to expect him to pick his life back up, and crack on fairly quickly.
While it's sad when a parent dies, when you're middle-aged, you can't expect 5 months of hand-holding and personalised service - for free!
A couple of weeks, fair enough, while you deal with funerals and all that, but any more than that is taking the piss.

Perhaps he hasn't meant to take advantage of you, but he has.

Older man, taking advantage of a younger woman's in-built, socially-conditioned, inability to say "no" to older men. What a shocker!

MrsSlipSlop · 01/09/2020 13:44

Yes, please say no to dealing with problems.

He’s obviously not so snowed under, or suffering financially that he can’t take a holiday!

RB68 · 01/09/2020 13:44

Just straight up reply with a list of what it will cost for all the elements he wants - full rate etc

Do not apologise do not tell him you are skint just tell him what your rates are and whilst in the immediate aftermath of his Mothers death you were happy to help gratis short term you are not able to do that after x date.

I would go for a decent monthly retainer

TheOrigBrave · 01/09/2020 13:48

Your problem is this "I said of course" and "I am a people pleaser".

Lovely traits to have when a friend is in need, but you need to keep an eye on it, otherwise people may take advantage of your good nature and you can't run a business on good nature.

Maybe suggest a paid session where you can help him get back on his feet more. 5 months is not that long ago to have lost his mother and his head be all over the place.

DinGaddy · 01/09/2020 13:54

While it's sad when a parent dies, when you're middle-aged, you can't expect 5 months of hand-holding and personalised service - for free!

Agreed, agreed! This is a key comment to read @needAbackBone1

He is unintentionally, or deliberately using this emotional factor as a way of continuing the arrangement he has with you. Will his mother's death be a factor eight months in? Ten? a year? Who decides?

Please remember one salient fact. He has no incentive whatsoever to change anything about the current setup. None.

The onus is completely on you I'm afraid to ensure you get the space and time you need to make YOUR business the best it can be - and that usually means charging clients of course.

monkeymonkey2010 · 01/09/2020 13:59

A distant family friend runs the sort of business I help out. About 5 months ago this friends elderly mother died....Right up to her death she helped out a lot with the business....Its becoming apparent he has decided to go on holiday and just told his staff I'll manage them until he is back

Sounds like he doesn't actually know how to run the business and just let his mother manage it whilst he soaked up the profits.
I wouldn't bother having a working relationship with him - sounds like too much trouble.

areyoubeingserviced · 01/09/2020 14:00

My dh is an accountant and refuses to do any work for friends and some family.
Too many CFs, not fully appreciating how time consuming the work is and wanting everything for free.
Agree that you should just tell him that you are busier. He is really taking advantage of you

honeygirlz · 01/09/2020 14:09

It's good you are addressing this OP, keep us updated on his response

mellicauli · 01/09/2020 14:10

Tell him he has been through a rough time but you can see he’s ready to take up the reigns again yourself. I would point out all the good work you have done for him . I would tot it all up and tell him how much it would have cost at commercial rates. I would tot up how much the company would have lost without your help. You could also propose a paid consultancy package.

And it’s time for him to repay the favour, You also need to ask him to introduce you to contacts who could provide you with paid work.

Ineedadentist · 01/09/2020 14:12

Sounds like he doesn't actually know how to run the business and just let his mother manage it whilst he soaked up the profits

Yes. It sounds like he took advantage of his mother and is now taking advantage of you.

And you won't make a success of your own business if you continue to work for nothing, or at cheap rates, for him.

blarrr · 01/09/2020 14:14

I don't think you can back-charge as you agreed to help out, and you have not been assertive in explaining that a cost would be involved for the tasks you accepted. I would explain that you were happy to help them out, but it's getting too much for you and your own work is starting to suffer as a result. Tell them that there's a lot involved and you would recommend that they hire someone now to help with the business. Just tell them the end date that you will discontinue helping, and stick to it.

MissConductUS · 01/09/2020 14:15

One of the tricky things about doing consulting is the all you sell is your time and it can't be stockpiled. An unbilled hour can never be recovered and sold to someone else.

When you had little billable work this wasn't as much of an issue. If his business hasn't started picking up so that he can afford to pay you that's his problem, not yours. The opportunity cost of going forward as you have been is simply too high.

MrsSlipSlop · 01/09/2020 14:22

Make the end date you will stop helping for free as soon as possible.

monkeyonthetable · 01/09/2020 14:25

Be absolutely straight with him. Tell him you have already amassed X hours working for him and while you were happy to help out in the initial crisis, you need to earn a living and can't do anything more unless you charge the going rate which is £ (Don't give a discount. He's already had one. Explain how much the work you have already done is worth and that you at times had to postpone paying clients to fit in with his demands. Just be very direct and frank about it. If he is half decent he'll over you some money towards what you've already done, and the full ongoing rate. If he isn't he'll slope away or complain or get passive aggressive in which case you need never deal with him again.

Intelinside57 · 01/09/2020 14:39

I've read the updates OP. This is the end. Email him now. It doesn't actually matter if anyone gets upset, business is business and he's taken the piss. Don't you dare do another free minute for him.
Re the fact that he's increased your work to managing his staff in his absence you've got two choices a) when they ring tell them there is no arrangement in place for you to manage them and they should crack on as they think best or b) tell them that you are making a note of the time taken because you will be sending your invoice in at the end of the week - and do it.

OldBean2 · 01/09/2020 14:44

Hi OP, you have done enough and should do no more. I used to work for one of the Big Four accountancy firms, a tax accountant there explained to me that he never did any work for free, including charities. When I asked, "Why?", he told me that he always charged as then, if there was a problem his client could legitimitely complain and hold him to account. Tell him that making the agreement on a commercial basis gives him genuine rights.

Xenia · 01/09/2020 14:45

Yes, just refuse. It is not right to carry on. Even if he were paying full rates I don't think it is going to work out or work well with him.
Sometimes people ask me to do work for nothing (I am a lawyer) but I don't have loads of free time and they wouldn't come here and clean my house or paint the walls for nothing would they so just because I am a lawyer should not mean I am a free advice centre!

BrummyMum1 · 01/09/2020 14:46

I don’t think you need to dwell on work already done for free. Draw a line under it and tell him “I’d love to carry on helping you out but I no longer have the capacity to do pro bono work. If you’d like me to send you my rates then let me know but if you’d rather use someone else I totally understand”.

2bazookas · 01/09/2020 14:51

"Dear FF
" It's great to see that now things are settling down , you're getting back on your feet again. So now it's time for me to hand back the reins to you regarding the help I've been giving to you at Grabbybastarrds Ltd..

     Of course;  Backbone Co. will always  be happy to  provide our  professional  services to  Grabbybastards Ltd,  at  the usual business rates; I enclose a copy of our business terms."

2bazookas · 01/09/2020 14:59

It's always a mistake to offer a lower rate to friends, because then they will recommend your great service at low charges to other people , who will be very affronted and upset to find out how much you intend to charge them.

"Buy I'm a friend of X, she told me you only charge Y".

Now Friend of X thinks you're ripping them off. It never ends well.

Original poster

needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 15:05

I was very confused when the staff member called and I think I made it clear I was not aware of any such arrangement and that I couldn't be of any help.
In response to my message about needing to meet to set up a formal arrangement he has let me know he will be back early next week.
@zingally you are completely correct that his mum was very old she was still working well into her 80s as she loved the business so much. I think he enjoys living the high life without wanting to do the work.

He will be told clearly that I cannot work for free, if he wants me to help manage the day to day running I am willing to do so at my normal rates

OP posts:

timeisnotaline · 01/09/2020 15:05

One minor point- there is no reason at all to assume your client drop due to COVID means you have more free time. It means you need to work harder at generating more business and your time became more highly pressured than ever given business growth is often a slow lead in good times and lots of angles peter out so you need to follow lots to generate any success. Your time is precious, whether paid or unpaid.

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 01/09/2020 15:09

It's not the same thing exactly, but I crochet and quite often people see a scarf or shawl that I've made and ask me to make one for them. People that are not friends enough that I would happily give up hours to make stuff for them but are also present enough in my life that I need to at least be polite about telling them to fuck off.

I say that I have a backlog of things I want to make so they would be waiting indefinitely (you say that your regular clients are taking up you working hours again). Then I say that I would be happy to text them the pattern and yarn that I used and to recommend some great YouTube tutorials (you recommend that he employs someone experienced in X, or that he and/or his employees go on Y course, or give him a few names of consultants that do what you do). Then I say "It's not that difficult, if I can do it then it'll be straightforward for you".

The nice ones say "Thanks for your help, I'll look into that" even though they have no intention at all of doing it, and the piss-takers say "Oh I'm so busy I'd never have the time for that sort of thing".

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 01/09/2020 15:12

I would also be wary about entering in to a paid arrangement with him, he'll push the boundaries and you'll still end up doing favours here and there and getting paid for about a third of it. Try to recommend somebody else who is more suitable in some way (physically close, specialist experience etc).

Original poster

needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 15:15

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar I can imagine that gets very annoying, thankfully what I do is so niche that its not something my general social circle is interested in. The only other person who has asked for help was a good friend of my DP who asked if I could help out a friend of his, I did so and it was a completely different experience, I spend an hour with her going over the basics she was really great full and expected nothing else of me. That friend has helped DP out alot over the years so it felt like a fair exchange.

This situation feels far from fair currently

OP posts:

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