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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to do hours of unpaid work

97 replies

needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 11:41

I'm pretty sure i'm not being unreasonable but maybe I am or someone can help me get out this situation.
In short, I run a very small consultancy (just me). A distant family friend runs the sort of business I help out. About 5 months ago this friends elderly mother died, not unexpectedly she had been ill for a long time. Right up to her death she helped out a lot with the business (was originally hers) and after she died family friend asked for some help getting things in order as things had slid whilst she was ill. I said off course and spent many hours with him helping him improve what was being done.
Over the last 4 months I have answered every call and helped in anyway I can but its starting to get a bit much. He is now expecting me to essentially manage the business for him, in the last week he has called asking me to deal with a crisis (expecting me to interrupt time allocated to a paying client), sent me a pile of expenses to analyse where we can cut costs and given my number to his staff and asked them to call me with any problems. I lost a lot of work due to corona so currently have the time to be dealing with these things but I can't help feeling a little put out.
Anyway the AIBU would be am I being unreasonable to tell family friend that whilst I was happy to help sort out the immediate mess after his mums death if he would like me to continue to help and manage aspects of the business he needs to pay me? I wouldn't necessarily charge my standard rate but at least a token offering would be appreciated since my income has dropped almost 50% since January.

OP posts:
Zilla1 · 01/09/2020 12:13

Tactically, in this case, I should gently ask him what his thinking and intentions are regarding your assistance and role rather than set out your stall. I know there is a principle in negotiation about setting out your stall but I would put the ball in his court for two reasons;

the family dimension with MIL; and
it's possible he might offer something more favourable than you ask for.

Good luck.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/09/2020 12:16

Agree with everyone else, but regarding how to do it I'd explain face to face and then send an email confirming things - that way you've covered it all and the email won't come as a surprise

I'll w arn that they could make it difficult no matter what you do though; CFs often do, and unfortunately the only way to deal with this is to toughen up

Buttercupsandroses · 01/09/2020 12:17

I think you are doing the right thing op he needs to start paying I wouldn't cut my rate

BlusteryShowers · 01/09/2020 12:17

Another vote for not dropping your rates, especially not by 50%. As a fellow people pleaser I get how you feel, but you can do this!

Original poster
needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 12:19

@Intelinside57 That is a good suggestion RE service level agreement, currently my client numbers are very low because the bulk of my work comes from one well paying and time consuming client. Its a slightly awkward one as part of the work involves animals so obviously if their is a complete crisis with an animal that needs sorting ASAP thankfully my clients all understand this as they know it means I will be available for them in similar situations.
But I think for CF like this guy something on paper stating time frames in which calls will be dealt with reports will be sent etc would be useful to have. This experience is teaching me not everyone is as reasonable as my current lovely clients

OP posts:
Original poster
needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 12:23

@SpaceOP Thankyou for the advice, my main client currently contracts me for a half a day everyday and is very reasonable about paying extra if something crops up that can't wait until the next day. But this experience is a learning curve and your right that I need more formal sort of set ups in place to account for this when the clients are less reasonable.

OP posts:
fuandylp · 01/09/2020 12:26

I also run a business and I found it hard at first to say no to people like this. You just need to tell him that you can no longer do this work for free. There are some good ways of phrasing it upthread.
Do not cut your rates.
He can decide whether he wants/needs to pay for you to continue working for him or whether he wants to find someone else. But what he can't do is continue to get all of this for free. It's a lot of work and should be paid accordingly.
And yes, make sure your rates take account of "quick questions" and "quick phonecalls".

It's hard and I've had people wanting me to do things for them for free because they are struggling because of COVID. I've said that I am also struggling and cannot afford to do any work for free. My business has taken a hit and I do have plenty of time and could do things for some of these people free of charge but I'm not going to because it sets a precedent.

ithinkiveseenthisfilmbefore · 01/09/2020 12:26

You shouldn't be wrecking your own business trying to prop his up, especially for free!

Tell him he needs to hire someone; you have your own business to sort out. You've done more than enough.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/09/2020 12:28

"Going to have to put on my brave pants and tell him if he wants this level of work he needs to pay."

If he wants ANY level of work he needs to pay your going rate, from now on

TantieTowie · 01/09/2020 12:41

Way to handle this without offence is just to say that now things are returning to normal(ish) and government support is tailing off (you don't need to say if you used it or not) you need to start earning some money again and sadly won't have the time any more, so he'll need to find someone else – perhaps you have suggestions about someone he can hire, or perhaps point him towards how to take on an apprentice. Say it face to face if you can, so you can do so sympathetically rather than formally – which writing it down inevitably ends up being.

CatteStreet · 01/09/2020 12:47

@RNBrie

I think this is pretty easy to solve... just say you've really enjoyed helping him out and it was good for you too to keep busy during lockdown, but work has really picked up again and you need to concentrate on your paying clients now. You'd be happy to take him on as a client, please see attached for your rates.
This. No apologies, no 'I hope you understand's, no mates' rates.

I suspect a touch of male entitlement (to a woman's time and services) on his part.

katy1213 · 01/09/2020 12:51

No discounts. No excuses. Time to stop being a people-pleaser and think about pleasing yourself. This is a distant friend. Not someone you need to placate or bend over backwards to help. A few hours initially to help out would have been a favour; but when you saw the scale of it, you really should have discussed terms there and then. CFs carry on Cf-ing for as long as you enable them.

Fishfingersandwichplease · 01/09/2020 12:57

Stop this now....l got in a similar situation where l was helping a mate out once a week. Then he started phoning me more and more and the once a week ended up being 3 or 4 days a week. I very quickly realised he was using me and l was getting nothing out of the situation so told him l wasn't available any more. He literally hasn't phoned me since. Oh well!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 01/09/2020 13:00

Wel, if your MIL starts your DH can set her straight, her friend is abusing your business. But if you are going to be succesful as a consultant you're going to need to stop with that kneejerk peple peasing reaction - it will cripple your business!

He pays full rates, is treated as any other client, from right this moment! Be as blunt as you have you be but get this stopped and him either paying you and treating you as a consultant or leaving you alone to run your own business!

I know how hard that can be, I went from being a teacher to being self employed!! So best of luck!

Original poster
needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 13:07

Ok so I sent a message letting him know I'd recieved the expenses he had sent and that I was happy to go through them but first we need to meet and discuss a more formal arrangement. He is currently on holiday but when he is back we will meet and I will lay down the new rules of, any work being paid.

I'm also going to be making sure to avoid future situations by laying out my rates immediately when anyone other than immediately family or dearest friends ask for help

OP posts:
serialreturner · 01/09/2020 13:07

@missatrick

Way too apologetic for me. Why mention skint? None of his business and suggests that if she wasn't skint she'd keep doing it.

  1. happy to have helped when had extra time
  2. I am concentrating on my paying clients
  3. If you want to discuss a rate and come onto my client base, vey happy to have that conversation.
Hoppinggreen · 01/09/2020 13:15

So he’s an older man and he’s got a younger woman to help him sort out his business for free - do you think he would ask another man to do this?
He’s completely taking the piss now and you are not valuing your skills or time at all. Understand what you are worth. I do Consultancy and nobody gets my time for free, even if I have spare time - I could be doing something else with that.

MrsSlipSlop · 01/09/2020 13:23

No good deed goes unpunished!

He’s in CF territory now he’s given your number out to his employees.

CaveMum · 01/09/2020 13:24

As you’ve already said to him that you need to meet face to face to discuss a formal arrangement, you nee to send him another message straight away to say that you will not be undertaking any work on his behalf until after you have had your discussion. You said his staff have been told to send you queries so you need to out a stop to that right away or they will just keep on sending you stuff.

Darkstarrynight · 01/09/2020 13:28

I'd quote him OVER my normal rate otherwise he'll continue to take the piss.

Never mix business and pleasure is the motto here...

IntermittentParps · 01/09/2020 13:30

given my number to his staff and asked them to call me with any problems.

I didn't quite twig this. That's RIGHT out of order. If any of them call you, ignore the call then block them.

Original poster
needAbackBone1 · 01/09/2020 13:36

It was the giving the number out that really pushed me over the edge. I have already told the staff member who contacted me that I was unable to help as I was busy doing other work and that they needed to contact him. I'm hoping I made it clear that unless there is a real animal welfare issue I won't be assisting. Its becoming apparent he has decided to go on holiday and just told his staff I'll manage them until he is back

OP posts:
Jaxhog · 01/09/2020 13:36

Been there. Have a chat with him and tell him that you cannot do any free work as you too have bills to pay. Suggest that he really needs to pay you for at least some of the work you've done for him, but that in any case, you will now have to charge him at your normal rate. Don't discount your rate just because he's a friend or you'll never recover. It's either free as a favour, or normal rates. If he's a serious business person who respects what you do, he will agree. If he doesn't, then he's no friend.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 01/09/2020 13:38

I'm a little concerned for you that if you meet him face to face you'll end up giving in (people pleaser) and just carry on doing what you're doing.

Yes, it's the professional thing to do and yes, if you can be strong enough to stand your ground it's the right thing to do - but is it the right thing to do for you? I'm not so sure.

Family and friends can be right arseholes when it comes to business and they DO play on your emotions because they know they can. You have to toughen up - this can be your test case of saying "No".

I went on an assertiveness course once through work - it was fascinating watching how some people would figuratively let people walk all over them.
First exercise was in pairs - one had to say to the other "I really need £5, can you give me £5 please?" and the other had to say No. Some people literally could NOT do it. Couldn't bring the word out. It was shocking! Shock

I honestly would cost out how much money's worth of work you have already given him, so that a) YOU know, and b) if he continues to browbeat you, you can tell HIM. SOmetimes the numbers can be very shocking, so it might stop him trying to leech off you more (and it might make YOU realise how much he's already had off you and what you could have spent that money on if he'd been a paying client!)

Have your T&Cs worked out on paper before you meet with him. Hand them over to him and say "this is my rate, these are how many hours I have available for you routinely and here is the contract for those hours. Extra hours are at this rate (1.5x original) and calls out of business hours are charged at this rate too."
Takes control of the discussion - he can negotiate the hours but not the rate - and shows you mean Business.

Jaxhog · 01/09/2020 13:40

Woh! Just saw your latest message. That is out of order. You should bill him for all your time while he's on holiday and no more free work. Also, tell him that you can only do work that is pre-agreed by both of you from now on.