Racism in the US vs racism in the UK

[Alonetime]

I've just watched the racism in an elevator video (google it, it's very short video) and I'm a bit perplexed by it. As a woman, I wouldn't think for a second that the man might steal my handbag, but I would definitely be very aware of being a woman in a confined space with a man.

Is this a case of racism in the US just bein very different to the racism in the UK, or am I too a "dumb bitch" and part of the problem?

Leaving racism aside for the moment, my view is that calling a woman a 'dumb bitch' is deeply sexist and offensive.

I think it depends on the person.
I lived in the US for nearly 10 years. I would have been more conscious of being alone in a lift with a man (regardless of ethnicity) rather than being mugged by anyone. Both there and here. Same as you.

There is a theme, which is white women aren't allowed to be scared of black men, because it must be racism. Actually no, it's risk assessment based on sex. I've been hassled, assaulted and harassed a lot less by men of colour than white men during the decades of crap, and I've lived in very diverse areas. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be wary. Because of sex rather than race.

And the discussion on race and privilege has exposed a nasty streak of misogyny in some people. Karen, anyone? And yes, bitch comments.

I haven't seen the video though.

I'm in the US, and I've never been concerned about being alone in an elevator with a man, regardless of race. It wouldn't occur to me to be. It's an individual thing, I think.

I think too many women have done this in the past to black men and they noticed and could read the body language for what it was. Unfortunately, any woman on her own in a lift is liable to respond this way to being in a confined space with a man but the damage has been done now - it's a fair assumption for the men to make because they have had to dissect it for what it is. I also think there is a situation where some people are so comfortable with the culture in the place they work that they passively absorb it all up then if someone comes in who isn't usually part of the fabric and has some self awareness of this, it can trip up people who are not racist but have just fallen in to a lazy, passive way of accepting the norm that works for them but has been problematic to others. Does that make sense?

I haven’t watched the video. I have never worried about being in a elevator with a man for any reason and regardless of colour.

I haven't watched the video. But, as others have said, I would never be worried about my bag being taken in a lift by a man. I think this is a male worry, they are much more likely to be mugged. But I would be wary of men when I'm on my own in general, I've been flashed at 4 times by men (not in lifts) so it's based on experience!

Also it does depend on the lift, glass lift in busy shopping centre in daylight - ok, small old lift in quiet car park at night - not ok!

I've never been concerned about being alone in an elevator with a man,

It's not exactly concern or worry, but I have an awareness of threat in way I don't with a woman. This is probably due to the fact that every person who abused me as a child, raped me as a woman or sexually harassed me has been male.

That video is disturbing - it isn't OK to refer to women as dumb bitches, dumb white bitch, or whatever else he was saying . I've never felt threatened being with anyone in an elevator, white black or otherwise.

@Alonetime

I've never been concerned about being alone in an elevator with a man,

It's not exactly concern or worry, but I have an awareness of threat in way I don't with a woman. This is probably due to the fact that every person who abused me as a child, raped me as a woman or sexually harassed me has been male.

Same. I’m nervous around men if they’re drunk, aggressive, in big groups or acting weird regardless of what colour they are.

I think too many women have done this in the past to black men and they noticed and could read the body language for what it was.

This is helpful. It is part of my white privilege that I don't have to question whether my skin colour is the reason for any slight or insult.

However, I would argue that the man in this kind of situation has a male privilege .

Why is calling a woman a dumb bitch by a man ok?

I have never worried about being in a elevator with a man for any reason and regardless of colour.

This is quite eye-opening for me. (Again, it's not that I'm worried per se, I'm just aware. It's a hyper-awareness of my environment that isn't triggered when I'm in a female-only situation).

I am wondering if people are in different lifts to me. Maybe I've spent more of my life in urine soaked, scary concrete tower blocks and 10 storey homeless shelters, but I've certainly been wary in a lift. I just don't take them in certain circumstances. Late night parking for example.

Normal lift somewhere normal, no issue.

I think the video is horrendously misogynistic. Is also quite badly staged - the woman’s reactions are not genuine and she is there to play the part of “dumb bitch”.

What I would be interested in how people genuinely react in that scenario. A “fly on the wall” of real life examples. If this is something that black men are used to experiencing, that is awful.

But I am a 6ft tall judo instructor, and I risk assess if I’m in an elevator alone with a man. ANY man. I usually give a polite smile while doing it, but still I risk assess and it’s possible it shows despite my efforts.

You are in a confined space with a man you don’t know and no means of escape, of course you are going to be slightly nervous irrespective of someone’s skin colour. That’s not racism it’s just a natural instinct.
Once again everything is white women’s fault.
He sounds a real charmer

Same Schmeebles - eye contact, acknowledgement but no bag-checking.

I think the only place I am conscious of my bag and potential theft is when I put it down in a cafe, where I tend to put the strap under my chair leg.

Based on anecdotes (including this articlevincedixonportfolio.com/2019/03/28/women-clutching-purse-black-men/) it seems like this is something that some black men experience a lot of. The man in that article documented experiencing it 9 times in one year.

I remember Barack Obama talking about similar experiences (although I think that was people locking car doors if he walked past).

I'm a white man and I dont recall having any similar experiences myself (I'm not saying that people dont do things like this around men, regardless of race, but certainly a lot of black men seems to have wildly different experiences to me).

The racism in the elevator video isn't a good one though; it's overtly mysogonistic and did draw negative commentary back when it was released.

This is really interesting - just watched the video. A couple of years ago my youngest was hassling me to carry him when we were out in our local town. Before I picked him up I switched my handbag from over my shoulder to across my body, so it couldn't slide off as I held him. A few minutes later a white van drove past me and the (black, male) passenger yelled out the window at me 'I wasn't going to steal your handbag!' in quite an aggressive way.

It took me a while to figure out what he was referring to but I realised that he had been parked over the road when I switched my handbag round to pick up my DC and must have thought I did it because I was passing him.

It's stayed with me for a long time and I've felt a lot of emotions about it: sad that his life experience made him so paranoid that a woman rearranging her bag to pick up her kid made him think it was about him, indignant that he assumed what I was doing was anything to do with him and upset - there was clear misogyny there too. What possessed him to yell out of the window at a woman carrying a small child if he didn't want to intimidate me? He was gone before I even realised what he was referring to. It seems unlikely that he'd have yelled at a man in the same way. So yeah, maybe he thought I was a dumb bitch too, but I guess we're all victims of prejudices in society and I certainly never set out to intimidate him like he did to me! That video is nasty, why would you set out to scare someone?

I would expect racism in the US and UK to be different, purely because of the history. We have never had institutionalised black slavery within the UK, or the Jim Crow apartheid laws of the southern US states.
In the UK, it’s probably more linked to snobbery, jingoism and a looking down the nose at “Johnny Foreigner” in general. Racist Brits are probably just as racist against white Eastern European immigrants as they are against black people.

The US, by contrast, has a toxic legacy from generations of slavery and apartheid. There is a gulf of mistrust and misunderstanding between the white and black communities- often justified, as black men know they are at great risk of being shot by white police officers for no legitimate reason.
I would guess that there is not such a high proportion of mixed race couples in the southern US as here in the UK, either. London is very ethnically diverse, and there has been lots of intermarriage between communities which helps to break down barriers.
I’m not claiming the UK as a utopia - we still have problems with some policemen picking on innocent black youths, there is still covert job discrimination to a degree, but we do not seem to have the level of anger and hatred that is causing mass riots in the US.

@Alonetime

I've just watched the racism in an elevator video (google it, it's very short video) and I'm a bit perplexed by it. As a woman, I wouldn't think for a second that the man might steal my handbag, but I would definitely be very aware of being a woman in a confined space with a man.

Is this a case of racism in the US just bein very different to the racism in the UK, or am I too a "dumb bitch" and part of the problem?

It’s how you grew up. I come from a poor bame area and will walk across the road to avoid a lone white man at night but a BAME man would have to be waving a weapon for me to do the same.

It's not my bag I'm worried about when trapped with random men in a confined space with no escape.

Any man who doesn't understand why a woman would have that reaction is a fuckwit.

I'm an American. I'm only concerned about being in an elevator with a man if I pick up something odd about him, his body language, the way he looks at me, etc. Elevators here quite commonly have surveillance cameras in them so that tends to discourage bad behavior.

It's not my bag I'm worried about when trapped with random men in a confined space with no escape.

This. If I adjusted my bag it would be to keep my arms free, rather than for thefts.

However, I lived in Italy and I have a wide strap, cross-body, hand on the bag at all times there. Because moped theft and purse cutting was so prevalent. And almost always (IME always) white, young men doing it.

However, I don't doubt that black people suffer constant racism, because I live in the world! I grew up driving in cars with boys and I know which cars get stopped.

So I wear longer skirts, a head covering and sometimes portable wealth in my ear lobes, and never get issues with black guys other than getting attempted chat ups, and one who was clearly off his meds, but I get plenty with white men. Both aggressive towards me, and edgy briefcase, backpack clutchers. Smiling doesn't make them treat me more humanely, they generally stare pointedly or straight ahead. Sadly I frequently get female purse clutching and clild pulled to safety, side steppers too. I believe it comes under 'micro aggression.'
In work and education environments I dress the same but more subtly and take my earrings out, to try and hide what I am, but once it comes out so does the need for others to publicly guard purses and phones, and make spurious claims if they mislay things, even when they've known me as an individual first. It hurts and it builds up.

I just watched the video with adult DC's and I'm afraid we all burst out laughing. We range through pink, olive, deep olive. ( normal for us.)