Racism in the US vs racism in the UK

[Alonetime]

I've just watched the racism in an elevator video (google it, it's very short video) and I'm a bit perplexed by it. As a woman, I wouldn't think for a second that the man might steal my handbag, but I would definitely be very aware of being a woman in a confined space with a man.

Is this a case of racism in the US just bein very different to the racism in the UK, or am I too a "dumb bitch" and part of the problem?

Thinking about it... In the same way that (as a woman) I often think it would be nice if men were more aware generally to some of the fears women may have in specific situations and the effect there body language can have, It would also be good if white people were more aware of the effect their body language had on black men like in the situation shown in the video. So at least its raising awareness which can only be a good thing...

I would cross over the road if a group of white drunk lads were coming towards - I wouldn't if a group of drunk black lads were

A few posters have made this point. Why is it the case? Isn't it because we know that black men have more to lose and they know it too? Is it white privilege that means we have less to fear from black youths than white youths?

So at least its raising awareness which can only be a good thing...

But it's at the expense of misogyny towards women. The point could have been made without resorting to calling women stupid bitches.

Just watched it and I’m disgusted. Misogynistic little prick, who is he?

yetanothernamitynamechange I come under that heading.We use Rom to cover all the different Romani in the same way black is used for lots of national origins.

There's a problem in the US too. Years ago when there where far fewer Rom there, a serious survey on US racism threw up three things: Rom were a tiny minority in the US. the most hated (measured by racist views) minority group was Rom, but only a tiny proportion of Americans surveyed said they'd ever met a Romani.
It went hand in hand with the word 'Gypsy' being put on the front of many things to describe them as illegal or bad. It hasn't got better especially on Fox news.

The worst thing here isn't the obvious purse, child, bag, phone clutching stuff, it's other stuff.

We've abandoned the education system now for safety and sanity.

I've been let go three times after being outed because our 'insurance wont cover you.' A different place; people got concerned after realizing, (nothing had gone missing) so management organized lockers "to reduce anxiety." Bad enough, but embarrassingly they were for everyone but me.

Last attempt at mixed friendship went sour after she wanted and brought a (static) caravan at a v.good price because they had a new one being delivered. It was explained therefore it MUST be gone for that date.
She was annoyingly understanding at first when she couldn't find her own haulier to lift it off a Rom site. Then got progressively annoyed explaining to me that it was ridiculous because she'd told them, she as the buyer wasn't Rom so why was she being discriminated against? Guilt had me offer to negotiate price with a normal Rom haulier as she was afraid she'd be ripped off. Turned out the issue was then a Rom would know where it was going to be sited. Demanded more time and accused the poor family of screwing her over when they said they'd have to take it apart if not gone on the agreed date to site new one, so she called the police on them. Apparently IABU to have 'gone professional' on her.

But one of the worst, is terrified kids dragged round and threatened with being dumped on us to teach them a lesson. They scream stuff at their kids about who we'll sell them to. It's beyond heartbreaking and teaches our kids how they're seen too early.

Some of our people have a double whammy of being dark skinned but the prejudice is clearly about 'other than us'. Skin and clothes are just convenient excuses.

Alonetime "drunk black lads" have never given me any problems so I don't fear them particularly. Long haired drunk white lads also.

Racism was far worse in the USA than the U.K. when we lived there, friends of colour knew that tables wouldn't be available in restaurants and hotels would be fully booked in some smaller cities /towns. Especially certain states. Gay friends expressed the same. Personally being blonde and blue eyed I had no issues, but I regularly saw discrimination

I haven’t seen the video but I’m very aware that I have been socialised to be afraid of black men. I’m ashamed to say I did the Harvard implicit bias test and failed.

I’m an ethnic minority who has worked for immigration charities and helped people from around the world and I try to be not just not racist but actively anti-racist. And yet I know I have prejudices, however suppressed. I’m wary of anyone who says they don’t.

@PicsInRed

It's a stupid video because

1. You're supposed to move over when someone else enters the elevator
2. You're supposed to bring your belongings closer to make maximum space for the person who just entered
3. He clearly hates women
4. He acts like a genuine threat to her (and threatens severe violence) in the video.

The theme of what he discusses is true, the purse clutching side eye does happen, but this video feels more like his rage at women than his rage at racism.

agree with all these. While I was watching it as soon as he said the moving over part I thought I automatically do that in a lift for anyone, male/female.

Also it would be very rare for the size discrepancy to be so overt in the way shown in the video (the woman is much taller and slightly bigger than the man) - again as a small woman I do get nervous at being in an enclosed space with any man but a big heavy one in his twenties to forties is much more intimidating than a small older gent in his seventies. The actors in that video are specifically chosen to make the scenario look ridiculous but in the vast majority of cases with one woman and one man of similar ages the male will be taller and stronger than the woman. The fact the guy in the video doesn't even seem to think about this very obvious fact shows he is too wrapped up in his own victimhood to think of the possibility of anyone else's.

Apart from anything else him calling the woman/all white women? "dumb bitch" three times and threatening her (saying her actions make him want to assault her) all within the space of a sixty second video doesn't exactly scream "I'm so non-threatening and unfairly discriminated against." It says 'I'm a dick with an anger management problem who over interprets innocuous gestures."

@thevassal

That's the problem I have with a lot of this material - in order to get the point across it makes it uncomfortable for the viewer or is so OTT or is too personal that your point 'It says 'I'm a dick with an anger management problem' is hat most of us take away from it - he certainly seems a man who has internalised rage and is hitting out at targets who won't fight back yet his point is valid - especially against a backdrop of white woman hysteria against black men.

The video of the woman in Central park who rang the police on a man who asked her to leash her dog was recent - post Floyd George.

I've just watched it and I'm disgusted.

If it is true that a black man-any man- thinks he can refer to a white woman as a 'stupid white bitch' then that needs to be nipped in the bud instantly and NOTHING but NOTHING gives him the right to fantasise about .'a savage attack' on her.

The colour of his skin does not give a pass to making these types of comments about women and shame on us, if we allow it to go on.

There a lot of men out there who need little excuse to be violent physically or verbally toward women.

This video should be removed but it won't because violence to women is ok-they ask for it in so many ways-such as being cautious when alone in a confined space with any man.

What an eye opener!

NOTHING but NOTHING gives him the right to fantasise about .'a savage attack' on her.

And part of the issue is that my thinking would be, 'well she was right to be concerned, wasn't she?'. We all 'read' the men we encounter. Body language, subtle stuff. And then there's subconscious bias and prejudice. Either or both could be at play. But if you are a man who thinks about violently attacking a woman who moves over for you in a lift, you aren't a man I want to be in a lift with.

And the air people give off changes based on situation. I used to work with homeless teens in South London, most were young black men. They would come in the door of the place all limpy walking, scowling faces, hand down the pants, sucking their teeth. And then the mask would drop and they would be sweet boys again. They put that face on because they were traumatised children in a dodgy place. And they needed to give off an air of menace. But when they felt safe they were sweet kids.

Then they meet a woman who has trauma from men who gives off a 'don't fuck with me' vibe. And crosses the road or clutches her purse.

Trauma meets trauma and everyone is blaming prejudice. Absolutely some of it IS prejudice. But a lot of it isn't.

[quote DonnaQuixotedelaManchester]@thevassal

That's the problem I have with a lot of this material - in order to get the point across it makes it uncomfortable for the viewer or is so OTT or is too personal that your point 'It says 'I'm a dick with an anger management problem' is hat most of us take away from it - he certainly seems a man who has internalised rage and is hitting out at targets who won't fight back yet his point is valid - especially against a backdrop of white woman hysteria against black men.

The video of the woman in Central park who rang the police on a man who asked her to leash her dog was recent - post Floyd George.[/quote]
It was the same day - May 25th. And his name was George Floyd, not Floyd George.

@Schmeebles yes, George Floyd my mistake.

@ Then they meet a woman who has trauma from men who gives off a 'don't fuck with me' vibe. And crosses the road or clutches her purse.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Trauma meets trauma and everyone is blaming prejudice. Absolutely some of it IS prejudice. But a lot of it isn't.

This is such a good point and we need to discuss as a society this idea that there is a hierarchy of whose trauma gets prioritised over others.

He really lost all credibility when he called her a dumb bitch and said he'd like to savagely attack her....she read him right.

For me, it is so upsetting to see a YouTube video in which a woman can be (in the guy's head) threatened with violence and called names because she is cautious.

He thinks it is because of his colour but most women would think it is because it is the sensible thing to do if in a lift with any man.

I have found it very upsetting actually. A video on YouTube excusing violence towards women and some are nodding along agreeing with it.

No woman deserves a man to think he is justified in even wishing to beat a woman up, even if she is racist because when one reason becomes acceptable, others will follow.

There are laws to deal with racists.

In this lift example, the woman wasn't being racist: she was being sensible and I can't help but wonder if he would have reacted the same way with a man. Of course he wouldn't.

Every woman-of every colour-should demand that this video be taken down. No woman deserves to be spoken of or have fantasies of violence directed towards her.

Actually, the US has much higher rates of intermarriage than the UK.
In the US, the rate of marriage rate was 17% in 2015 (15 percent in 2010). The rate of interracial cohabitation is much higher.
In the UK, the rate appears to be 7 % interracial marriages, and 10 percent total interracial cohabitation.
Sources:www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/marriagecohabitationandcivilpartnerships/articles/whatdoesthe2011censustellusaboutinterethnicrelationships/2014-07-03
www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44780698
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/12/key-facts-about-race-and-marriage-50-years-after-loving-v-virginia/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States

That video is at least ten years old, by the way. I don't know why it is trending now, if it is.
I think this is a pretty good response to it:
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/between-the-lines/201007/racism-in-the-elevator-misogyny-in-the-video-production-room

I think it's stupid. Where did they get that tiny little man and that gigantic woman? If a woman wants to clutch her pocketbook when she's alone with a strange manand let's not forget that females are on average half a foot shorter and 30 pounds lighter than males, with far less musclethan she can clutch her goddamned pocketbook. And if a male is that vituperative toward a stranger, then she has every right to be protective of her space and belongings.

The way to address racism is not with sexist abuse.

I think this racism thing is becoming rapidly like the old school Catholic concept of original sin. There are tonnes of well meaning people who self flagellate for their perceived culpability whilst the actual assholes carry on with their bigotry unabashed or at least covertly.

You have to walk a common sense line: kind of accepting you’ll never quite get it (as a white person in a majority white country), but that doesn’t mean you cannot empathise and listen when shit goes sideways.

In the end most people just want to be treated as individuals anyway so just do that. It’s not as if every BAME individual is singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to views one race. There is diversity of opinion within every community.

White people or even men in relation to women, are like a large bag of sweets only you know a few in the bag are poisoned. Question is why would even risk eating just one? Sure maybe most of them lovely, but who wants to risk being violently ill?

In that light I tend to view most BAME people as in possession of a tremendous amount of goodwill, and I’d like to try to respond in kind. Same principle goes for women too. I think something like that video requires just a smidge of honesty and sensitivity. Maybe black men are viewed with more suspicion by white women, and that requires some conversation, but women are attacked by a lot men of all races too, and that’s an injustice also.

“In the US” is a very broad term that doesn’t really define anything. This is a huge country with Avery broad range of demographics. My experience here in a very isolated part of the west would be completely different from someone in Chicago’s south side, for example. I think I have seen one black person since we moved to this house, possibly two. They were of retirement age and enjoying a walk on the beach here. I have never heard of any racial tensions in this part of the country.

You have to walk a common sense line: kind of accepting you’ll never quite get it (as a white person in a majority white country), but that doesn’t mean you cannot empathise and listen when shit goes sideways.

I take your point about the self-flagellation potential and accepting that clumsy mistakes will be made, but I also think white people need to do more than offer tea and sympathy when it "goes sideways". They need to do something about racism so that people are not being discriminated against or shot up or killed due to the colour of their skin in the first place.

@AloneTime. That is so but any man who thinks it's ok to have feelings of violence towards a woman deserves nothing from anyone.

If it is true that some BAME men feel like this then as women, we must be aware of it and not allow them to justify it.

The first way this can be done is to roundly condemn this video and ask the maker to publicly apologise.

The internet makes the world a small place, so trending and viral stuff finds its way from over there to over here in seconds. But this is the UK, we're not America. I've been to America. Its soooo different to here. Completely different culture, history, social behaviour, etiquette etc etc.

This is why the world says OMG CULTURAL APPROPRIATION about a singer attending a long standing festival they've never heard of. They think we all live in twitterland. But we don't, we live in damp old Blighty.