To think going on holiday at the moment is selfish and unnecessary

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think it’s totally unnecessary and selfish for people to go abroad on holiday at the moment. I’m not talking about people that need to go abroad for other reasons, such as ,work or to see ill relatives etc. I think getting our children back to school trumps a holiday.
However, lots of family and friends are going away abroad for holidays, do others agree with me or am I being unreasonable?

'one major reason we have had so many more deaths is because we didn’t close our airports as fast as other countries'

Untrue, and based on pandemic modelling pre-covid, closing airports would make little difference.

I think that we really shouldn’t be judging other people and their choices. I live in a reasonably nice flat, my dc each have their own bedrooms and we have enough space for normal life. There is no outside space though. I found lockdown really difficult because what felt fine normally, quickly became claustrophobic. I realise that I am lucky and lots of people have worse living conditions. Do I judge someone for wanting to escape their cramped living conditions for a while? No. I didn’t myself but we have health conditions in the family and I wasn’t comfortable about it. I don’t know what goes on in other people’s lives and therefore do not judge them.

You write a lot of sense @Lockheart

@MadameBlobby

I’m also fed up with this constant berating of people as “selfish” for every little thing. What will be next?

Going to a shop more than once a week - selfish
Going to a shop to buy wine and chocolate - selfish
Someone on here back in lockdown said pensioners walking to a newsagents for a paper were “selfish cunts”
Driving 10 mins to go for a walk somewhere uncrowded - selfish
Using online shopping - selfish
Wanting schools to go back FT - selfish
And now going on holiday - selfish

Fucking sick of it.

I do worry about people getting publicly castigated and called selfish.

Lots of the things on this list (not the schools one) could be either selfish or not selfish depending on circumstances.

We do however live in quite a selfish society so it is easy to assume that or throw that around I suppose.

I don't feel going on holiday is selfish but I think we are a bit stuck as travel is both a very important industry and a big virus risk!

It's not selfish at all. I have not and will not go as I don't like the risk but others can do as they please for gods sake!

Im following the rules to a T despite my thoughts on some of them and despair at the amount of people touching me, leaning over me, coughing without even covering their mouth, too selfish to even try social distancing and those that just behave like total selfish fuckers when I'm out and about etc.
But
I'm all for foreign travel. I work, well used to work in aviation (laid off now). The industry is on its FUCKING knees. We need air travel.

It's not just air crew its every agency and person that works in an airport land or airside, every safety agency, every agency involved in travel, every technical and engineering company involved in aviation that's affected. Millions of UK jobs in this industry alone are affected. So for that reason alone, I'm all for it.

Holiday travel has allowed 3% yes only 3% of people in my sector and geographic UK area of the industry to return to work the last 3 weeks. Everyone else has been furloughed and already laid off. With winter ahead of us and peak holiday season already behind us not all of that 3% back will keep their jobs. It's likely that the other 97% will lose this jobs as soon as furlough finishes this autumn if things stay as they are.
Holiday travel also impacts travel jobs too think travel agencies, even online companies need staff any transport workers and associated support agencies.

That's a lot of benefits for the UK government to pay out and a lot less income tax and NI being paid in.

Obviously I'm aware a lot of UK businesses/industry are in a similar situation but you were saying about foreign holidays.

Aragog
I also have an 18 year old whose education has been messed up and who is now off to uni. And a husband who travelled to an EU country to visit his 89 year old mother who lives alone and has barely left her flat in six months. We all have our personal battles. I personally draw the line at unnecessary travel because I think it is responsible to do so (when schools and businesses are trying to get back to normal, obviously not in more normal times), but if you think a holiday abroad resolved all those items you list and feel better for justifying it that way, good for you.

@Pepperwort - pardon? Then perhaps @herethereandeverywhere you shouldn’t be spreading it abroad? What a disgusting entitled culture Britain has become

I've been living in Germany for the last 4 years. A place that made a far better job than the UK of keeping me safe. There I can obtain a free COVID test anytime I want or need one - I absolutely would not be "spreading it abroad" or in fact anywhere. The only "disgusting culture" I have observed in the UK is the new form of self-appointed judgment police who, like you, see fit to opine on the perfectly legal conduct of other people.

We are fortunate enough to have a bit of disposable income and feel almost felt duty bound to keep going out and spending a bit, because if we all just hole up and stop doing things then this time next year we will be in a terrible mess. We weren’t going to book a holiday, but then DH’s good friend died (very prematurely) as his cancer treatment was postponed and we just thought fuck this, the fear that has been created by the media is creating probably more serious issues than the actual disease so we booked two; one to Cornwall and one to the South of France. France was easily safer, less crowded, far lower rates of infection where we were than our home town and far greater adherence to safety measures and social distancing. Guess which one we now have to quarantine from? It’s nonsensical - my son will now miss his first days of school owing to an almost non-existant threat. Some of you will say “more fool me”, but when society breaks down because too many firms have gone bust because folk are too scared to support them then I wonder who the fools will be then?

Did you not get absolutely loads of sun up until very recently in this country? It was boiling hot for weeks

No. It was shit here.

[quote herethereandeverywhere]**@Pepperwort* - pardon? Then perhaps *@herethereandeverywhere you shouldn’t be spreading it abroad? What a disgusting entitled culture Britain has become

I've been living in Germany for the last 4 years. A place that made a far better job than the UK of keeping me safe. There I can obtain a free COVID test anytime I want or need one - I absolutely would not be "spreading it abroad" or in fact anywhere. The only "disgusting culture" I have observed in the UK is the new form of self-appointed judgment police who, like you, see fit to opine on the perfectly legal conduct of other people.[/quote]
Totally agree

Taptotoe

Did you mean to be so callous with your response?

We have lost 4 close relatives within a year, 3 through lockdown. ,y Gil has recently died, prematurely, of a very nasty aggressive cancer whilst in his early 70s robbing him of seeing his granddaughters grow up.

Did it resolve those issues? No. Are really so obtuse that you think it would, or just trying to be nasty? I sadly suspect the latter.

Did it give dh and dd a much needed break, which he wouldn't have got if we'd stayed in our home? Yes.
Did we personally benefit from it? Yes

Did we put anyone at at any increased risk compared to if we'd stayed in the uk? Not really, no. As I said we followed all SD and mask guidelines. We travelled sat away from all other households in ventilated carriages. We chose hotels and restaurants where we could SD.

Nut hey, if it makes YOU feel better or you can justify making such callous observations about it, then good for you - right?

I wish I had gone abroad on holiday. I spent the money on a new patio and garden stuff instead because at the time it seemed like the sensible thing to do but quite frankly I wish I’d had a week in the sun. I had time off from work but the weather where I live was shit, I find it very hard to remove myself from work when I’m still in the country, and I love feeling the sun on my skin and eating outdoors, walking along a beach in a bikini, swimming in the sea or a pool. It makes a massive difference to my mood.

I think that a lot of people like the OP just want to believe themselves to be more virtuous than everyone else and that’s easily done on a screen but is unlikely to reflect the entirety of their lives.

And yes I know all about schools. I will be teaching 270+ children next week with no SDing and no masks, whilst being clinically vulnerable. Darn right I understand schools!!!

And I absolutely believe that schools need to get back and my concerns will never be shown to those children.

I would think one good reason for going abroad would be to get away from the judgemental twats that seem to cluster in the U.K. The U.K. is definitely world beating in that category.

You do you and others will do themselves. YABU.

'Selfish' has become the new secular form of Catholic guilt. Guilt-tripping doesn't work because it's stupid.

I've been living in Germany for the last 4 years. A place that made a far better job than the UK of keeping me safe. There I can obtain a free COVID test anytime I want or need one - I absolutely would not be "spreading it abroad" or in fact anywhere. The only "disgusting culture" I have observed in the UK is the new form of self-appointed judgment police who, like you, see fit to opine on the perfectly legal conduct of other people.

This.

@Theluggage15

I would think one good reason for going abroad would be to get away from the judgemental twats that seem to cluster in the U.K. The U.K. is definitely world beating in that category.

God, yes, and it extends to all aspects of life - the medical community is especially good at it.

[quote Walkaround]@pickpickledpeppers - well, yes, selfish if you’re going to sneeze all over everybody wherever you go...[/quote]
There are these amazing things called tissues and hankies, they work so well.

@Theluggage15

I would think one good reason for going abroad would be to get away from the judgemental twats that seem to cluster in the U.K. The U.K. is definitely world beating in that category.

This ^ 100%. The level of judgement I have had now I am quarantining from ‘friends’ concerning my ‘irresponsibility’ who have happily spent time at crowded bars and parties whilst I went to a “corona hotspot” where I could cycle, run and swim without barely encountering a soul is totally making me re-evaluate relationships...

I don't often holiday abroad but have recently been looking at cities with interesting exhibitions on and R rates comparable to London. Even if I have to quarantine when I get home, I can work from home so its not a big deal.
Given all the families having mass BBQs in the local park since the beginning of June with no precautions or social distancing beyond the occasional mask dangling from an ear, they're clearly not too bothered; I can't imagine their children could possibly be any less socially distanced than they have been for the last three months,

They had a really strict lockdown, barely went outside and now they say all their sacrifices are being ruined by tourists.

It's really not the tourists in Spain who have been "ruining their sacrifices"!

YABU

There are those who have close relatives abroad, and in some cases have not seen them since last year.

I don't blame them one bit for travelling abroad at this time, going abroad is not always for "fun and sun".

For me, it's each to their own- I wouldn't judge anyone going abroad as being selfish.

Well, I wouldn't myself; and I think that people who do go must accept the risks, and for example be prepared to follow the quarantine rules. But people have many reasons for going on holiday, and I wouldn't judge them unless they break the rules, or unless they put pressure on others, who are more vulnerable or just risk-averse, to travel with them or visit them.

I think it was irresponsible of the government to give people the green light to go abroad and then pull the rug from under their feet by virtually zero lead-up announcements about having to quarantine upon their return.

Also think it might have been useful to advise families with DC of secondary school age to take their holiday (and return) two weeks ahead of the start of term.