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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aggressive anti-maskers make it less fun to go out and do stuff so swathes of us are staying in more than we would

146 replies

ChavvySexPond · 29/08/2020 23:11

All I seem to hear about these days is people who don't follow the masking and social distancing rules and how it makes going out so much more stressful and how people who would like to go out more are staying in more instead?

AIBU to think aggressive anti-maskers and anti-social distancing covid deniers make being out in the world even worse than it has to be in the time of Covid?

OP posts:
HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:10

On Mumsnet all the aggression I have seen has come from those who think that exemptions shouldn’t exist

Totally agree.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:15

plenty of threads full of ranting about “muzzles” and how masks don’t do anything and only brainwashed sheep wear them

Ive not seen much of this on here. And as for "using disabled people as a weapon" How is it using them as a weapon to point out exemptions? DH has COPD and is exempt.

Funny how this is using them as a weapon but when its any other group its called being an ally.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:21

What pisses me off are the people who spent the last ten years voting for individualism and now want the goalposts moved now that Covid has come along.

And you just fucking know that once this is all over they will want them moved back again.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:28

Then there are the ones who interpret "dont like" as "wont wear"

Because wearing one isnt good enough You have to like it as well or be policed for wrongthink.

Masks are a real drag
But its all about the price tag
Now you need to do your duty.
And shop for clothes and beauty.
Dont forget about shoes.
And stuff you possibly wont use.
And you can go to the pub
Eat lots of lovely grub.
With not a mask in sight.
You can party all night.
Drinkers getting a free pass
So they can drink and fall on their arse.
Had enough of this crap
Sick of being in this trap
Up to me if i dont shop
It doesnt mean you can have a pop.
Now i play the waiting game.
But you wont make me feel shame.
I DO wear a mask
But being happy "bout it? Too big an ask.

rainwaterflow · 01/09/2020 23:37

Helena I am disabled, was on the shielding list, and have worked extensively for disabled organisations and in the field of disability activism.

How is it using them as a weapon to point out exemptions?
Please don’t put words into my mouth. This has nothing to do with “pointing out exemptions.” It’s about able-bodied people who do not have or need an exemption, who are against mask-wearing for political reasons, actively exploiting and abusing the idea that people aren’t allowed to ask about exemptions. On right wing American forums and on Twitter they openly talk about how to exploit the ADA to escape “muzzles” and these are the same people preaching that COVID is a hoax caused by 5G to microchip us.

Exploiting access accommodations created for disabled people when you do not need them is ableism and actively hurts disabled people, period.

People who do not have any form of physical or mental issue that would make mask wearing difficult, refusing to wear masks out of political beliefs, also hurts disabled and medically vulnerable people by contributing to the spread of COVID and prolonging the pandemic, as well as encouraging ableism and stoking anti-disabled hatred.

The “anti muzzles” brigade are actively harming disabled people and misusing and exploiting disability rights to do so. It’s vile and abusive and anyone defending them doesn’t give a shit about disabled people.

Ive not seen much of this on here.
Then obviously you don’t go into a lot of threads about mask wearing, and please stop pulling the “I haven’t personally seen this” card to imply the other person is lying or overreacting. The threads containing posts dismissing COVID/spreading conspiracy theories/being anti-muzzle have been all over MN for months if anyone cares to look. MNHQ have deleted some horrendous threads but there are still plenty of individual posts promoting those beliefs.

rainwaterflow · 01/09/2020 23:39

Because wearing one isnt good enough

Nope, wearing one if you are medically able to is perfectly good enough.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:44

I have been on a LOT of threads about mask wearing. That poem is a copy and paste from another thread I wrote it back in July.

Im not part of the "anti muzzles" brigade. My concern is that my DH and my elderly mum do not get bullied or harrassed when they are out and about.

I am not a fan of America . The fact they are an extreme right wing country is not news.

Conflating people who are concerned about how their relatives with medical conditions are going to be treated when they are out shopping etc., with the right wing American anti muzzle brigade is disingenuous. I wrote that poem because i got fed up with being gaslighted.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:45

I do wear one. I bloody hate it but i wear it.

rainwaterflow · 01/09/2020 23:45

What pisses me off are the people who spent the last ten years voting for individualism

It’s this kind of far right wing ideology and unnecessary politicising of masks that is so incredibly dangerous.

It’s people being asked to do the absolute bare minimum to help halt a global pandemic that has slaughtered more than three quarters of a million people. It has literally nothing to do with “individuality” unless you are an insane person who lives in a cave and believes seat belts are a mind control leftist plot.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:48

Ive never voted for a right wing party and i wear a mask My conscience is clear.

rainwaterflow · 01/09/2020 23:49

Helena, I have consistently argued for the urgent need to separate and differentiate between people with genuine medical exemptions, and those abusing disabled rights for political agendas.

If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the anti-muzzlers, they’re the ones endangering your loved ones in multiple different ways!

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:50

If you mean ppl like Piers Corbyn then i agree.

HeIenaDove · 01/09/2020 23:56

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coronavirus-fears-over-face-covering-hate-crime-as-new-laws-go-live/

Coronavirus: Fears over ‘face covering hate crime’ as new laws go live
By John Pring on 23rd July 2020
Category: Crime

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Focus
Disabled people have raised serious concerns about the rising tide of coronavirus-related disability hate crime, amid fears that this could increase even further when new laws on the wearing of face coverings go live tomorrow.

From tomorrow (Friday), it will be compulsory to wear a face covering in shops and supermarkets in England.

Many disabled people are exempt, the government has made clear.

But despite those exemptions, many disabled people who cannot wear face coverings have already been subjected to disability-related hostility online and while travelling on public transport, where it is already compulsory – except for those with exemptions – to wear a face covering.

Stephen Brookes, a former coordinator of the Disability Hate Crime Network and now an ambassador for Disability Rights UK, has written to key figures in government, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and disability organisations about his concerns on “mask hostility”.

He says in his letter: “In my 12 years of dealing with disability hate crime up to June 2018, it was clear that abuse of disabled people has always been problematic at times of tension, but we are now in uncharted territory, which is supported by examples we are seeing at all levels.”

Brookes (pictured, left), who is also the minister for disabled people’s rail sector champion, although he was not speaking in that capacity, added: “We must both re-assure and support disabled people in terms of real hostility and remind perpetrators that verbal abuse can still be recognised as a potential hate crime and as such will not be tolerated.

“Can we all take stock and ensure that disabled people are not bullied out of any normal life we should be able to expect, and remind the public and those who affect our lives that the added pressure of fear should not be added to an already difficult situation.”

He has also now raised concerns about comments made during a radio interview yesterday (Wednesday) by the Metropolitan police’s commissioner, Cressida Dick.

Asked about customers who were refusing to wear masks in shops, she told LBC: “My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply, and that people who are not complying will be shamed into complying or shamed to leave the store by the store keepers or by other members of the public.”

Brookes said: “This statement by Met chief Cressida Dick is most seriously unhelpful, and potentially could lead to hostility and hate crime against those who can’t wear face masks.

“She needs to change and clarify that view most urgently.”

Last week, Fazilet Hadi (pictured, centre), head of policy for Disability Rights UK, called on the government to recognise the need for “balanced messaging” on face coverings, including “that some disabled people cannot wear face coverings and that this should be respected”.

She told the minister for disabled people, Justin Tomlinson, in a letter: “If the messaging doesn’t change, millions of disabled people will not be able to safely leave their homes.

“For those of us that do, we will experience fear, anxiety, possible conflict with public and police and demands to prove our impairment/illness.”

Inclusion London is the lead organisation for the London DDPO Hate Crime Partnership, working with 20 Deaf and disabled people’s organisations (DDPOs) across the capital.

During the coronavirus crisis, it has been running a weekly survey of DDPOs that run hate crime advocacy services on the incidence and types of hate crime disabled people have experienced during lockdown, and now it is being eased.

Its latest weekly survey found 62 per cent of DDPOs reported an increase in disability hate crime referrals on the previous week.

Among the trends, Inclusion London has seen a rise in disability hate crime by neighbours of disabled people, and an increase in cases of disabled people being spat at while out in public because of the mistaken idea that disabled people are “virus spreaders”.

There has also been an increase in online hate crime, with disabled people “told that their lives are inferior and [that they] are taking up resources from non-disabled people”.

Disabled people have also reported being targeted while shopping if they have personal assistants or carers with them or if they need priority in shopping queues.

Inclusion London said: “Disability hate crime during the coronavirus pandemic has not come from nowhere – the image of disabled people as virus spreaders and taking resources from non-disabled people must be tackled.”

It added: “The core belief that disabled people’s lives are of less value than non-disabled people must be continually challenged through working closely with DDPOs.”

Another to have become concerned about online disability hate crime is disabled campaigner Victoria Langley.

She said she had been told on social media that disabled people like her should be locked inside until there was a vaccine because they “are more likely to catch it and pass it on

One nurse told her on Instagram that all those not wearing masks should be forced to sign away their rights to health equipment and treatment by health professionals who are “risking their lives because of you

Another woman told her on Instagram: “Trees are awesome and worth sobbing over.

“Bus drivers getting killed because they’re doing their job are worth sobbing over, people who don’t wear a mask because they are disabled, not worth sobbing for.

“I looked at your profile, you seemed fine???”

Langley said she found the widespread hostile comments on social media “scary” as a disabled person.

She said: “It’s made me petrified to go out.

“I’m scared to go out because people are not just being hostile, they do not care that being disabled makes it hard.

“I feel totally scared and boxed in with zero support.

“The government are ending all support and saying go out, but the general public want us locked in. I feel helpless and scared.”

Disabled researcher, author and campaigner David Wilkin (pictured, right) has been collecting examples of disabled people who have been subjected to disability-related hostility linked to the government’s COVID-19 regulations.

Wilkin, the lead coordinator of the Disability Hate Crime Network, has already collected more than 50 such cases.

One disabled passenger on public transport, who cannot wear a face covering, was targeted by another passenger, who shouted: “This person hasn’t got a mask. This person is trying to infect us. They are trying to kill us

A disabled train passenger who did not have a face mask because of breathing difficulties was confronted by another passenger, who refused to listen to their explanation, took a spare mask out of their pocket and forced them to put it on

Wilkin said: “They were under so much pressure that they put the face mask on and left the train

They felt that was the only way to placate the offender

Wilkin said he was concerned there would be further cases when the ban in shops and supermarkets comes into force tomorrow.

He said: “It’s definitely a concern. It’s bad enough to be grounded because you don’t want to use public transport, but you have to eat.

“The general concern is that the government, while they have delivered clear messages about face coverings… are not making the same number of messages about the exemptions.

“That is causing real problems.”

But he said he believed the government and public bodies were listening, as he has online meetings next week with both the Cabinet Office and CPS.

A CPS spokesperson told Disability News Service (DNS): “The law exempts those who cannot put on or wear a face covering because of physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability while using public transport.

“The same exemption will apply when face coverings become mandatory in shops.

“Our updated guidance to prosecutors will make this clear.

“If disabled people are victims of hate crime as a result then the CPS won’t hesitate to prosecute perpetrators if our legal test is met.”

Deputy chief constable Mark Hamilton, hate crime lead for the National Police Chiefs’ Council, told DNS in a statement: “We understand that many disabled people, and particularly those with ‘hidden’ disabilities, could be worried about being challenged by others if they are not wearing face coverings in a setting that requires it.

“Government guidelines set out a number of exemptions to the wearing of masks, including on grounds of disability.

“Some external organisations have developed ways to indicate that an individual is exempt, such as wearing badges.

“The government and the police have developed extensive guidance on these requirements, and police officers across the country have received training on how to recognise where an individual may have an exemption due to disability.”

He added: “Any disabled person who is victim of hate crime should report it to the police by either calling 999 (in an emergency) or 101.

“Additionally, you can report crime online at True Vision (report-it.org.uk). True Vision also contains helpful information and guidance materials on disability hate crime and COVID-19

rainwaterflow · 02/09/2020 00:05

I posted a link above to a video of a man physically attacking a woman because she WAS wearing a mask. That is being investigated as a hate crime too.

If everyone who is medically/psychologically able to wear a mask did wear one, the minority who cannot would be protected both from Covid and from abuse.

It’s the people who are trying to turn masks into a political symbol and an ideology who are responsible for the ableist hate crimes linked to masks.

Mintjulia · 02/09/2020 00:12

No, I haven't come across a single anti-masker and so obviously they don't stop me going about my business.

There are a few non-mask wearers but I guess they either are unable to wear them or they forgot. They are in the minority and not causing a problem that I can see.

I can't see what all the fuss is about.

HeIenaDove · 02/09/2020 00:18

It’s the people who are trying to turn masks into a political symbol and an ideology who are responsible for the ableist hate crimes linked to masks

The incidents that i have bolded above , the people who confronted those who wernt wearing masks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS, One even took one from his pocket and forced someone else who was exempt to put it on. That was not about Covid, It was about being a bully.

rainwaterflow · 02/09/2020 00:31

Do you feel the same way about the people who have been physically or verbally attacked because they are wearing masks?

Yes, it is about Covid. Helena I am really baffled by how you can claim to be worried about your loved ones and want to protect them, yet constantly dismiss and downplay the causes of ableist abuse.

Mask-related abuse (whether committed by anti-maskers or pro-maskers) doesn’t just spring out of nowhere, just like ableism doesn’t just spring out of nowhere. Dismissing it as just bullies is dangerous. These attacks aren’t because some people are just bullies, but because masks have become so massively politicised and have become emblematic of political ideologies that are inherently tied up with ableist beliefs and propaganda. To combat ableism or any form of politically/agenda-motivated hate crime it’s essential to understand the underlying causes, and that means critically assessing how masks have become politicised and how disabled people are being abused and exploited by both sides.

Legoandloldolls · 02/09/2020 00:36

Not seen this myself. I would have to see vady swathes of people without masks on inside shops to feel uncomfortable.

Too much life has passed by to stop me being to scared to live my life. Generally speaking, there are a scary amount of arseholes in this life. I'm not going to to terrified off my town for no one.

But as I say, it's not a concern where I live anyway

HeIenaDove · 02/09/2020 00:38

Do you feel the same way about the people who have been physically or verbally attacked because they are wearing masks

Yes i do.

yet constantly dismiss and downplay the causes of ableist abuse

How the hell have i done that?

There IS a systemic problem with abuse against disabled people which existed way before masks came along. But individuals like those doing the bullying are STILL responsible for their own actions whether they are anti maskers or think EVERYONE should be wearing a mask with no exemptions and there are plenty of the latter on here.

itsgettingweird · 02/09/2020 07:59

I've not seen anti mask and muzzle threads here or anti exemption either.

I've seen threads like these with differing views but I don't find them aggressive.

All I see with regards exemptions is people keeping g on repeating it's disability discrimination to ask someone if they have a face covering.

Which is wrong. Discrimination is discriminating against someone because if their disability or race or whatever.

It only becomes discrimination if you a) only ask disabled people or b) refuse entry on an equal basis to someone without a disability due to not wearing a mask.

Discrimination is treating someone less favourably due to a protected characteristic.

I also see people constantly say they aren't explaining why they aren't wearing one. You don't have to! Save the exemption thjng to your phone and just hold it up silently if asked.

Da wears his lanyard. Usually attached to loop on shirts and in his pocket. If anyone asks he shows it discreetly. No drama 🤷‍♀️

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