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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked at yet another last minute gov announcement.

641 replies

wantmorenow · 28/08/2020 22:25

New guidance for schools just announced on a Friday night before schools return. Breathtaking incompetence.

OP posts:
GetOffYourHighHorse · 30/08/2020 09:37

@noblegiraffe

They are supposed to discuss with PHE I think. Not sure now that they are being disbanded.
You think?!!

Of course any action will be done in consultation if not actually led by the local PHE team or whatever their new name is.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 30/08/2020 09:47

"You maybe missed my earlier post where I enquired whether you either work in or have children currently in state schools? Do you really think it's best practice from the DFE to release guidelines at 11pm on the Friday night prior to the week thousands of schools are due back?'

Yes I have kids in education, no I don't work in school but have friends who do. I also have many friends and family who work in the NHS and other public services but it is (some) teachers who seem to be worst for not having the resilience to manage an evolving situation.

Again, the guidelines released on fri night are nothing different to the info our schools have been issuing after ongoing planning. This isn't brand new information! Yes there's a set out contingency plan but surely that escalation of who to send home depending on the number of cases was one school had in place. Get on with it!

nosswith · 30/08/2020 09:47

So many U turns even a Tory backbencher complains. Though he should do the decent thing and call for Gavin Williamson to be sacked.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 30/08/2020 09:56

'So many U turns even a Tory backbencher complains. '

Or, guidelines changed as the data has? Why this constant accusation of 'u turns', surely we want leaders who listen to experts and review/change instructions as needed.

SaltyAndFresh · 30/08/2020 10:01

Get on with it.

Um, we are. Calm yourself.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 30/08/2020 10:12

@SaltyAndFresh

Get on with it.

Um, we are. Calm yourself.

I'm calm. The amount of outrage on mn at fri pm's guidance that isn't actually that different from what schools had been planning in consultation with DofE/PHE/LEA is ridiculous.

NHS staff get new guidance every single week, the police do. Prepare yourselves.. I bet Government will review data and change certain guidance after a few weeks, what then?!!!! teachers please just be flexible and teach our kids.

ineedaholidaynow · 30/08/2020 10:15

@GetOffYourHighHorse have you read the guidance?

There were sections included in the guidance for some subjects which those subject teachers have been waiting ages for, some of whom will actually have been back in school in Leicester. So a bit late to be giving them guidance on how to conduct their lessons, bearing in mind this is a health and safety issue. And for the teachers who start next week they will be busy rewriting their lesson plans and the school risk assessments will need to be rewritten as these subjects were included in those too.

All these Government guidance seem to be written as an afterthought.

The first ones issued for the June return were very Primary School centric even though they weren’t specifically for Primary schools. Secondary schools just got a small paragraph and a promise of more details to follow. Then it was as if someone had an ‘oh fuck’ moment we’ve forgotten Secondary schools and quickly sent out details. The same has been done for school transport, school meals and most importantly Plan B. Kept getting promised in each revised guidance and never appears until it is a bit too late as schools have had to try and make their own plans, and now have to revise them.

You sort of get the feeling that, even though school leaders have been asking for all this information, it is only when someone in the Department of Education thinks I wonder what is going on with my DC’s school bus, that they think shit we haven’t written the guidance on that yet.

ineedaholidaynow · 30/08/2020 10:23

And schools fully understand that guidance and they have to be flexible in these changing times, but it doesn’t take a genius to work out that if they want all pupils back, especially in Secondary school, something needed to be done in respect of school transport. So surely they needed to look at that months ago, bearing in mind school transport is usually a LEA or council matter, before you start blaming teachers for not adding driving a bus to their many skills.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 30/08/2020 10:27

@GetOffYourHighHorse - they have done so many U turns that I have whiplash

I now wait for Nicola’s announcements

tineand · 30/08/2020 10:42

Also, the difference between big public sector organisations and private companies and schools, is that schools often don't have specialist staff to deal with this type of stuff. OK, a bigger school will have a facilities manager and so on, but smaller primaries often have teachers, a headteacher and one or two non-specialist admin staff, and that's it. They usually rely heavily on their local authority to provide them with templates and models for things like risk assessments and policies, because they simply don't have that expertise in house. But certainly around here, the LA just hasn't kept up. So when the DfE releases 100 page documents on a Friday night, it's just down to the embattled head to try to wade through it.

herecomesthsun · 30/08/2020 10:54

NHS staff get new guidance every single week, the police do.

I'm senior NHS. If we had contradictory messages from the government every hour or so on how to do our jobs we would bloody well tell them where to go.

I think the teachers have had rubbish leadership from government. They are doing their best for our kids despite and not because of this. I am really shocked at the lack of respect and appreciation these dedicated professionals have had. Get over yourselves people.

MadameMinimes · 30/08/2020 11:10

@tineand Spot on! It’s so clear that many people just don’t understand how schools work as organisations. When people say things like “teachers please just be flexible and teach our kids” it’s very clear that they don’t understand the issue at all. That’s exactly what teachers will do. The new guidance is not going make any difference to schools being able to open or not... the problem is that adapting to new guidance will be time consuming for school leaders (even if it turns out that your school is fully compliant someone is going to spend hours checking it) and other staff, with extra meetings and policy changes at a time when all any of us want to be doing is focusing on reintegrating outer students into education and educating them as well as we possibly can.
It’s not a radical change that will suddenly mean we can’t open but it’s just another hassle that we just don’t need right now and it could easily have been issued earlier. The masks change may be explained by changes in the science but it’s been obvious since at least May that there should be a back-up plan for if the situation were to worsen again that didn’t involve just shutting down all schools again. This should have been issued months ago. ASCL have been asking for this for ages the government’s attempt to paint them as militant leftist agitators is ridiculous.

MadameMinimes · 30/08/2020 11:11

There are errors in that post but hopefully you get the idea.

SaltyAndFresh · 30/08/2020 11:12

@GetOffYourHighHorse, being outraged at the government's incompetence is not the same as not getting on with it, so you're either ill-informed or rude.

MitziK · 30/08/2020 11:14

@noblegiraffe

They are supposed to discuss with PHE I think. Not sure now that they are being disbanded.
Says that you're supposed to notify and then you'll be told who needs to isolate.

Which means somebody has symptoms, they go home, parent is told they need to arrange a test. If parent doesn't have a car, they have to order a postal test. The postal test arrives. The test is performed. The test is posted off. The test is, well, tested. The result is communicated. The parent is asked to notify the school. The school has to notify the result. They have to confirm who has been in contact. So you need to know every step they made, the kids outside the year group who they've hugged, etc.. For a year wide bubble, this also includes kids who have travelled with Patient Zero. So everybody on the bus. And then they have to wait for the response advising who has to isolate. And then you have to notify the parents and staff. And deal with parents wanting to know if their kid has been in contact, gossip, half truths, rumours and oh, look! Here's a kid in a different year group who has a temperature. And they've also got siblings in Y7, Y9 and Upper 6th. And they caught 2 buses in, along with kids from 5 schools on the same route, due to traffic (because so many are driving), the second bus took 75 minutes to get from where that kid got on. And the older siblings caught a different bus.

There seems to be potential for a HUGE delay and vast numbers of variables in this procedure. Not including the parent who refuses to consent to their child being tested in the first place and sends them in again the following morning. And the one after that. And the one after that.

Clavinova · 30/08/2020 11:20

Plan B

Have schools not prepared for remote learning?

The section below was in the guidance dated 7th August - I copied it for a previous post over a week ago;

Section 5 Contingency plans for outbreaks -
"For individuals or groups of self-isolating pupils, remote education plans should be in place.These should meet the same expectations as those for any pupils who cannot yet attend school at all due to coronavirus (COVID-19). See section on remote education support."

"In the event of a local outbreak, the PHE health protection team or local authority may advise a school or number of schools to close temporarily to help control transmission. Schools will also need a contingency plan for this eventuality.This may involve a return to remaining open only for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers, and providing remote education for all other pupils."

Remote education support
"Where a class, group or small number of pupils need to self-isolate, or there is a local lockdown requiring pupils to remain at home, we expect schools to have the capacity to offer immediate remote education. Schools are expected to consider how to continue to improve the quality of their existing offer and have a strong contingency plan in place for remote education provision by the end of September.This planning will be particularly important to support a scenario in which the logistical challenges of remote provision are greatest, for example where large numbers of pupils are required to remain at home."

In developing these contingency plans, we expect schools to:

*use a curriculum sequence that allows access to high-quality online and offline resources and teaching videos, and that is linked to the school’s curriculum expectations.
*give access to high quality remote education resources.
*select the online tools that will be consistently used across the school in order to allow interaction, assessment and feedback, and make sure staff are trained in their use.
*provide printed resources, such as textbooks and workbooks, for pupils who do not have suitable online access.
*recognise that younger pupils and some pupils with SEND may not be able to access remote education without adult support, and so schools should work with families to deliver a broad and ambitious curriculum.
When teaching pupils remotely, we expect schools to:

*set assignments so that pupils have meaningful and ambitious work each day in a number of different subjects.
*teach a planned and well-sequenced curriculum so that knowledge and skills are built incrementally, with a good level of clarity about what is intended to be taught and practised in each subject.
*provide frequent, clear explanations of new content, delivered by a teacher in the school or through high quality curriculum resources and/or videos.
*gauge how well pupils are progressing through the curriculum, using questions and other suitable tasks and set a clear expectation on how regularly teachers will check work.
*enable teachers to adjust the pace or difficulty of what is being taught in response to questions or assessments, including, where necessary, revising material or simplifying explanations to ensure pupils’ understanding.
*plan a programme that is of equivalent length to the core teaching pupils would receive in school, ideally including daily contact with teachers.
"We expect schools to consider these expectations in relation to the pupils’ age, stage of development and/or special educational needs, for example where this would place significant demands on parents’ help or support. We expect schools to avoid an over-reliance on long-term projects or internet research activities."

"The government will also explore making a temporary continuity direction in the autumn term, to give additional clarity to schools, pupils and parents as to what remote education should be provided. DfE will engage with the sector before a final decision is made on this."

A range of resources to support schools in delivering remote education is available:.....

spanieleyes · 30/08/2020 11:22

Added to which, schools can't actually insist on being told the results of any test!

canigooutyet · 30/08/2020 11:22

Secondary school got screwed over the day the school gates closed and the curriculum was cancelled. And considering things started to veer more towards year 6, wouldn't be surprised if that was the wake up call.

At least isolation is now with one positive not two as it was previously. And whole classes/years closing shouldn't really be surprising, posters have been talking about this for months, especially those who have ever worked with children in groups. It's not their fault, it's the adults that care for them that send them in with temperatures.

Although not sure where schools are supposed to find these empty rooms to put sick children in. Cannot put the vomiting ones in with the coughing ones, or in with the ones that look ill and have a temp. No doubt if they did some batshit parent would complain even if their kid was sent in because well they hadn't puked in 12 hours.

ineedaholidaynow · 30/08/2020 11:25

Schools are still waiting for their laptops from the Government from their ambitious scheme you keep telling us about @Clavinova.

Still waiting for your explanation why schools didn’t get their full quota.

As an aside have you got a GCSE in cutting and pasting documents, as this seems to be the only thing you can do.

MarshaBradyo · 30/08/2020 11:26

At least isolation is now with one positive not two as it was previously.

Do you mean closing the bubble?

noblegiraffe · 30/08/2020 11:26

Have schools not prepared for remote learning?

The section below was in the guidance dated 7th August

7th August, Clav. Are you suggesting that teachers should have spent their unpaid time off planning a remote learning offer in just three weeks?

I mean, you are. I’d just like it confirmed that you think that is a reasonable expectation.

canigooutyet · 30/08/2020 11:27

@spanieleyes

Added to which, schools can't actually insist on being told the results of any test!
That is covered in government eyes with track and trace. Parents technically won't have a choice if the system works.
FlySheMust · 30/08/2020 11:29

Oh the irony of @GetOffYourHighHorse's user name.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Clavinova · 30/08/2020 11:31

7th August, Clav. Are you suggesting that teachers should have spent their unpaid time off planning a remote learning offer in just three weeks?

It may have been in earlier guidance as well - I don't know. A teacher up thread posted that if only the guidance came out a few weeks ago they would have given up their 'unpaid holiday' to plan. Grin

noblegiraffe · 30/08/2020 11:32

You’re not allowed to call it Track and Trace, cani, you have to say ‘world-beating Track and Trace’.

Unfortunately, nearly 70% of head teachers think the system is shit. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-head-teachers-test-and-trace-scheme-nhs-schools-reopen-a9695206.html