To be shocked at yet another last minute gov announcement.

[wantmorenow]

New guidance for schools just announced on a Friday night before schools return. Breathtaking incompetence.

@RoseMartha

As we are in a pandemic we are going to get countless short notice announcements, it is to be expected really.

I know they are not usually convenient for us but we are just going to have to roll with it. Doesnt mean we have to like it or agree with it. For example although I comply and wear a mask, I hate it as it makes me feel claustrophobic.

I am fully expecting more restrictions and short notice rules as autumn and winter sets in.

Yes & that's understandable for certain things (local outbreak at a community centre - triggering a lockdown of some sort)

It is NEITHER acceptable nor understandable for this particular issue which is nationwide, massive and has been utterly predictable for MONTHS!!

The only reason I waste my time, thread after thread, is to prove for months there have been workable solutions, that for months people have been highlighting the problems relating to full school return. Much like the teachers, you know the ones who are actually involved, highlighted the foreseeable problems with A level results. The government ignored them, then swore blind they wouldn't follow NS U turn, then issued the results, then backtracked a few days later and blamed a 'mutant algorithm'. What complete bollocks.

I don't know why threads have to go this way. I'm hoping for things to go well but I am expecting disruption. I've not a clue how a criticism of a hapless minister causes teachers to be at fault.

@Jamdemic

I worry that it seems to be the same approach for primary, secondary and sixth form. 2 confirmed cases in a class of 30 at primary is a lot riskier than 2 confirmed cases in a year group bubble of 200+. In a secondary/sixth form bubble of 200+, if they all have to go home for 2 weeks if 2 people test positive, the pupils will never be at school, they will be permanently at home. Really to be statistically consistent, the proportion should be the same in primary/secondary/sixth form. I.e. 2/30 is equivalent to 13/200. So for consistency in a large secondary/sixth form, the pupils should be kept at home in the event of 13 positive cases not 2.

That's nuts!!

13 positive tests before any kind of isolation. The entire college would be positive in no time.

I'm reading this thread and it goes like this

General public : why can't schools make own plans

Teacher: must follow Dfe guidance

General public: but surely they are run by educated people

Teachers: yes, but we can't make our own rules

General public: so what have you got in place

Teachers: what was in original guidance

General public: so why does that now need to change

Teachers: because they changed it last night. We like yeh content as have been asking for it since June 10th

General public: so why didn't you have the plan B and also the recent face mask stuff in guidance.

Teachers: government said couldn't wear masks and wouldn't listen to need for what happens if there were closures

General public: well they couldn't know they may close.

I'm not a teacher but I'll answer this one.

Of course they bloody did. They've known since opening up every sector spreads may close them - they've said it. They've close factories and shit down local areas.

If people want to learn than ask questions. But for arguing out loud when the teachers who know the answers answer them - at least believe them.

Because if your not going to believe their answers - then don't ask the question (as my mum says!)

@tornadoalley

The guidance is in the event of something that may happen in the coming weeks, not days. Plenty of time for teachers to be prepared. Its not rocket science.

Don't make me laugh!

Why in Gods name do you think it'll be weeks before a child turns up at school with symptoms?

And 'may happen'? Seriously May??? Of course it's going to happen and before break time on Tuesday.

@nosswith

MJMG2015

And you think any other party would have been any better?? no, but Jeremy Hunt would have been, Sajid Javid, Angela Leadsom and possibly even the rudest man in politics, Michael Gove.

There are possibly only three vaguely competent ministers in the cabinet.

@nosswith

Let's just leave this here as we will never agree, if they're your optimal team, & it's derailing the thread.

🍷

I agree things are going to be difficult, but I also think it's possible to be overly pessimistic. Both of my kids' schools had confirmed cases prior to lockdown. Two cases in one school, three in the other. As far as we know, neither school had any further cases as a result. And this was before there was strict distancing in place. I don't think it's a done deal that schools will be hotbeds of Covid as soon as they open.

@CraftyGin, please stop sneering at state school teachers. It's unbecoming, especially because you won't listen to the simple truth that were not to have screens, don't have the space to distance and haven't the money to fund the tech that you've mentioned. You sound insufferably smug.

[quote SaltyAndFresh]@CraftyGin, please stop sneering at state school teachers. It's unbecoming, especially because you won't listen to the simple truth that were not to have screens, don't have the space to distance and haven't the money to fund the tech that you've mentioned. You sound insufferably smug.[/quote]
I’m not sneering at state school teachers. I work in a rinky dink school that is just doing its best to do the best for the students within social distancing.

I have a screen because I am a science teacher. I’m sure other science teachers will have more than one screen.

My school is literally a house.

It very much comes across as sneering. Why would you assume that we haven't planned as best we possibly can for our context? The word 'goady' is hurled around a lot on Mumsnet, but your posts this afternoon truly are.

The point is that head teachers/business managers/governors have had 7 months to figure out how to manage the new school year in their schools.

We have been having weekly meetings since about May to plan the new school year, at several of these meetings we have had to discuss the new guidance and check we are compliant with it. We had a meeting on Tuesday and then another on Thursday to discuss masks in the light of changes and after the two lots of guidance last night we are having a meeting tomorrow to discuss it so we can work on changing the written plans to send them out on Monday so parents have two days to read them.

We were happy with the plans we put in place before the end of term, however the government had to issue more and more new guidance over summer which we had to work with.

@SaltyAndFresh

It very much comes across as sneering. Why would you assume that we haven't planned as best we possibly can for our context? The word 'goady' is hurled around a lot on Mumsnet, but your posts this afternoon truly are.

Because of the meaning rather than pulling your socks up and getting on with it? The poor me thinking that it is someone else’s problem to solve?

My attitude is towards my own lessons, and the role that I play in working within the guidelines. The last thing I want is to have my headteacher and business manager telling me what to do. My personal rule is to as for forgiveness rather than permission.

Crafty you are sounding insufferably smug because of the stuff you have been in control of.

I feel sorry for your teachers who are going to find out when you tell them that you have timetabled them into completely different rooms and they have the rug pulled out from under their plans.

Because that feels shit.

With respect, if your school is as tiny as it sounds, trying to compare the preparations your school has made to those state schools have made is even more ridiculous.
My school has 6 buildings, across two sites. There are around 1000 students and over 100 staff. Implementing last-minute government guidance in my school is a lot more complicated than doing that in a “rinky dink” school that is based in a house. My sister works in a school that has more than twice as many kids and staff as us where it’s more complicated still. Surely you understand that?
Just ratifying changes with an extended SLT team of 12 people and them communicating them to a staff of over 100 takes time and planning. We have far too many staff to do inset day in the hall and so our briefings and items have been prerecorded and staff will be in distanced bubbles on the day...some of those video presentations now have to be re-recorded. As SLT we are now doing that re-recording over a bank holiday weekend.

@lucylocketspockets

I'm going for both!! & throwing in 'insufferable' as well!!

Exactly as MadameMinimes says, scale really makes a difference.

The person I know who is spending the whole long weekend revising risk assessments and procedures does so for a multi-site educational establishment with thousands of students, but few year groups. Year group bubbles are thousands, not hundreds, strong

Consistency is hugely important. The last thing needed in such a scenario is someone 'asking for forgiveness not permission' - if everyone does their own thing (as is entirely feasible in a tiny school) then chaos ensues. Everything has to be communicated consistently to hundreds of people, and cleared with their multiple representatives (whether that is heads of department, heads of particular qualifications, those who lead site teams or unions). Equipment purchasing is multiple hundred units, hard for suppliers to meet at short notice. Teams of site staff need to lay out and sign classrooms with consistency, but it takes time.

[quote MJMG2015]@lucylocketspockets

I'm going for both!! & throwing in 'insufferable' as well!![/quote]
@MJMG2015

@noblegiraffe

Crafty you are sounding insufferably smug because of the stuff you have been in control of.

I feel sorry for your teachers who are going to find out when you tell them that you have timetabled them into completely different rooms and they have the rug pulled out from under their plans.

Because that feels shit.

We all have an element of control over our own classrooms. Better to be proactive and do what you want rather than have SLT, who may not understand you subject particularly well, tell you what to do.

I am donning my Teflon hat next week, but it was my headmistress who told me to put classes into their form rooms. I am the monkey rather than the organ grinder. I am fine because all my classes will come to me in the lab. I will try very hard not to crow.

@CraftyGin

As the school Timetabler, I have changed all our rooming to have KS3 in their form rooms, and KS4 in their form rooms, as well as vacated KS3 lesson rooms for their options subjects. I will don my Teflon hat next week when teaching staff realise that they have to move rooms (which involves pro activity on their parts).

May i ask how many children attend the school you work at? It sounds like considerably fewer than the circa 2200 pupils at my local secondary school! As for having a parent who paid for cameras to be installed in each classroom that is a world away from the experience in state schools where some parents can't equip their children with pens and pencils.

I'm sure you have been working hard but your set up isn't representative of most secondary schools so please don't disparage teachers in school settings very different to your own.

' @MJMG2015'

Nice bit of name-calling. It's like been back at school. I thought teachers were supposed to be the grown ups.

@MadameMinimes

With respect, if your school is as tiny as it sounds, trying to compare the preparations your school has made to those state schools have made is even more ridiculous. My school has 6 buildings, across two sites. There are around 1000 students and over 100 staff. Implementing last-minute government guidance in my school is a lot more complicated than doing that in a “rinky dink” school that is based in a house. My sister works in a school that has more than twice as many kids and staff as us where it’s more complicated still. Surely you understand that? Just ratifying changes with an extended SLT team of 12 people and them communicating them to a staff of over 100 takes time and planning. We have far too many staff to do inset day in the hall and so our briefings and items have been prerecorded and staff will be in distanced bubbles on the day...some of those video presentations now have to be re-recorded. As SLT we are now doing that re-recording over a bank holiday weekend.

My point is that you make plans for the setting you are in. My setting is so unusual as to be totally irrelevant to anyone else.

But, some of what we are doing can be looked upon as a pilot for bigger schools.... we are certainly sharing our learnings with the wider school community.

We all have an element of control over our own classrooms. Better to be proactive and do what you want rather than have SLT, who may not understand you subject particularly well, tell you what to do.
I so wish that were the case. With nearly 100 teachers and 1400 students, we simply don't have the luxury of doing what we want - we all have to follow the "rules" as set down by SLT. I agree that they don't understand my subject or my classroom, but not doing what I'm told right now will get me into trouble. And I mean disciplinary trouble, not "a quiet word" trouble.

'May i ask how many children attend the school you work at? It sounds like considerably fewer than the circa 2200 pupils at my local secondary school'

Isn't it all relative? The more pupils then the more buildings and staff you have. Surely it doesn't change the fact if there's an outbreak then whoever is in charge has to refer to the guidance? Whether you have 50 kids or 500.