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Original poster

Racism allegation at work

260 replies

Ticklemelmo · 28/08/2020 10:39

Without outing I know someone that made a genuine mistake at the beginning of the year by putting something unintentionally racist in a work social media group, someone of colour in the group said it wasn't appropriate, and the person I know apologised directly straight away because they didn't realise.
Months later and a week into the BLM coming out they've come back and accused that person and several others of racism in the work place.

I can't speak for the others impacted by the racist allegations, but this person is now going through a disciplinary with a potential of dismissal?

Aibu to think that this is completely unfair? Anyone work in HR who has dealt with this and can give some expection of outcome.

OP posts:
queenofknives · 28/08/2020 12:44

So you know the person in question do you queen? how can you say he is not racist? It is all right for you to say what you say here as you are not having to endure racism on a daily basis. When you do, please come back and tell us all how easy it is to ignore it.

I only know what we've been told by OP. So like everyone else, I'm relying on that.

Honestly, by the same token, you don't know me and what I 'endure' on a daily basis. So I think your comment has kind of cancelled itself out.

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 12:48

I only know what we've been told by OP. So like everyone else, I'm relying on that.

I agree. If the OP, who starts goady threads on MN about false allegations of racism, says her mate who posted a racist video on Facebook is not racist, then that is good enough for me.

C130 · 28/08/2020 12:52

Queen This is about racism. A racist post that was posted. I am saying that if you suffered from racism you would not be so quick to dismiss its effects on people. You also do not seem to know what microaggressions are either. If you were a black or brown person I think you would. Again you dismiss this. I do not need to know you. What you post is enough.

Bluesheep8 · 28/08/2020 12:52

Seems unfair that someone did something, made a mistake and apologised for it is then disciplined months down the line?
Surely the matter was considered closed at the time?

phoenixrosehere · 28/08/2020 12:53

So yeah, you're right. I am dismissive of it. I think it's a huge waste of time and it's shaping how we see each other in very negative ways.

I can only guess you’re not a poc if those are the examples you are using. It’s way more than that.

lookingforamindatwork · 28/08/2020 12:55

As a white person who reported my white manager for a racist comment against a BME colleague, I have no sympathy for your colleague. (manager also made disablist comments to me)

Like my manager, it seems this person (and the OP) think it was just a mistake and as long as you say sorry its fine. Nope.

The BME colleague accepted the apology but left the organisation very quickly afterwards. I think because she was a young graduate she probably felt intimidated into letting it go. Furthermore, anyone hearing or seeing the behaviour has the right to complain if they felt uncomfortable - whether they are BME or not. So I complained.

The manager was the diversity and inclusion manager!

We've all had sufficient information through the media, school, workplace diversity training etc to know this is not okay. There isn't any excuse for it. Its the 21st century.

queenofknives · 28/08/2020 12:56

@thedancingbear

I only know what we've been told by OP. So like everyone else, I'm relying on that.

I agree. If the OP, who starts goady threads on MN about false allegations of racism, says her mate who posted a racist video on Facebook is not racist, then that is good enough for me.

See, this is the sort of thing that bothers me. We're just going to assume everyone has bad and horrible intentions, and that all allegations of racism must be true, and we're going to twist a situation until it fits our beliefs about the world, even if there's no evidence for that, and even if it directly counters the evidence we do have? That's how you want to have these conversations? It's disingenuous and dishonest, and it doesn't get us anywhere nearer to understanding each other.

People on here are anonymous, we tend to trust that they are giving an honest account of events as far as they know them. If we're going to say everyone is a liar when their account doesn't line up with what we want to think, then what's even the point of having a conversation at all? Talk about 'microaggressions'! This kind of attitude is aggressive af.

PhilSwagielka · 28/08/2020 12:56

@phoenixrosehere

I was listening to an interview earlier today with Abigail Shrier, who is a Jewish woman. She said that she knows Holocaust survivors who complain less than people do these days about 'microaggressions'. She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it.

Umm.. that’s not what microagressions are about though. They are small yes, but they are repeated things that happen on a consistent basis. Also, saying that people complain too much about these things when they are still happening is dismissive.

You'd think as a Jew she'd understand about microaggressions. One of the reasons why I was unhappy in my last job was because of nasty little digs about my Jewishness from colleagues.
YgritteSnow · 28/08/2020 12:58

Couldn't agree more with all your posts @queenofknives.

PhilSwagielka · 28/08/2020 13:00

It was Flavour Aid, not Kool-Aid.

phoenixrosehere · 28/08/2020 13:00

You'd think as a Jew she'd understand about microaggressions. One of the reasons why I was unhappy in my last job was because of nasty little digs about my Jewishness from colleagues.

I’m not saying she doesn’t but it’s a bad analogy. Would you say that the digs your colleagues made were so small that they could only be seen under a microscope?

queenofknives · 28/08/2020 13:04

You'd think as a Jew she'd understand about microaggressions. See, some people would call that a microaggression. The idea that as a Jew, she ought to understand things in a certain way.

I'm sure you didn't intend it that way. I think you meant it more as a call to empathy and shared experience. And I'm sorry you experienced nasty digs from colleagues. But you don't need a special way of looking to understand what's wrong with nasty digs and bullying. The whole philosophy behind the idea of microaggressions is that you need a special way of looking to even be able to see them - cf all the people on here saying I don't understand because I'm not a poc and therefore I haven't got the special lens (microscope) I need to be able to see the world this way.

It's a very divisive philosophy.

queenofknives · 28/08/2020 13:05

@YgritteSnow

Couldn't agree more with all your posts *@queenofknives*.
Thank you! That's appreciated.
C130 · 28/08/2020 13:05

Queen Whatever. It is quite clear that you think that people should just put up and shut up about it all. Well tough, I hope people continue to speak out about racism and it ugly effects on people. It is a cancer and needs to be dealt with.

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 13:06

See, this is the sort of thing that bothers me. We're just going to assume everyone has bad and horrible intentions, and that all allegations of racism must be true, and we're going to twist a situation until it fits our beliefs about the world, even if there's no evidence for that, and even if it directly counters the evidence we do have? That's how you want to have these conversations? It's disingenuous and dishonest, and it doesn't get us anywhere nearer to understanding each other.

Nah, fuck that (and you can take 'disingenous and dishonest back' - how dare you).

I'm not going to take it at face value that someone in the course of being sacked for posting racist content on the internet is not a racist. I'm certainly not going to take it from the OP, who has specifically set out to stir up issues around race by posting a tale about a supposed false allegation.

You keep sticking up for the racists, pal. It suits you.

MaskingForIt · 28/08/2020 13:10

a week into the BLM coming out

You might want to work on your own prejudices, too.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 28/08/2020 13:10

Can you not tell us the phrase Mariel?

I wouldn't want to take even the smallest risk of a colleague recognising me on here, and it's an error I'm already bitterly ashamed of. Someone may have been hurt as a result and I can't swallow those words or take them back, more's the pity. I also could easily have ended up in the same position as the OP's colleague. I'm grateful I didn't (and am very aware of how awful this must feel for them), but I guess the point I'm making is that both they and I should be a lot more careful about what we post online and the language we use.

Lesson learned, for me. The only thing I can say in my own defence is that I'm not minimising it and have learned from my mistake.

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 13:11

^a week into the BLM coming out

You might want to work on your own prejudices, too.^

Exactly. The OP is stirring the shit.

phoenixrosehere · 28/08/2020 13:11

The whole philosophy behind the idea of microaggressions is that you need a special way of looking to even be able to see them - cf all the people on here saying I don't understand because I'm not a poc and therefore I haven't got the special lens (microscope) I need to be able to see the world this way.

Racism is divisive.

Your examples made it out as if poc are just seeing basic misunderstandings and calling it racism. You deal with it enough, you know the difference.

Moondust001 · 28/08/2020 13:15

@Cadent

OP, do you have any conception of how hard it is to be a minority in the UK? And then couple that with having to watch a racist video in a work chat group? None of your posts have shown any sympathy to the person making the allegations.
Quite - you are not even supposed to know (so someone has done something else wrong in sharing this information) and you have their version of it and nobody else's. This is none of your business since you are none of the parties to this action (you say). Your opinion is therefore completely irrelevant and based on one sides gossip that shouldn't have taken place.
queenofknives · 28/08/2020 13:16

@C130

Queen Whatever. It is quite clear that you think that people should just put up and shut up about it all. Well tough, I hope people continue to speak out about racism and it ugly effects on people. It is a cancer and needs to be dealt with.
I'm sorry that's what you've taken from my posts. I agree that we need to talk about racism and do what we can to counter it. That doesn't mean that we have to always assume that racism has taken place or is taking place in every single encounter or action. That whole way of looking at racism is driven by a very negative view of people (and if you look at one of its prime propagators, Robin di Angelo, it's clear that she is a racist who has no idea how to even talk to black people, and just assumes all white people are as racist as she is!)

I believe in equality, that we are all equal as humans and no one should be discriminated against for the colour of their skin or their ethic background or nationality. In the famous words of Dr MLK, I want a world where "the content of a man's character is more important than the colour of his skin." Up until the last few months, that would have made me not racist in most people's minds. Now apparently I must be a racist because I refuse to accept that everything that happens between people of different races must contain racism and racist power dynamics. I know that's not true, as I come from a very diverse background, lots of black people in my immediate and close family. The struggle against racism up until now has always been the fight for equality. Now apparently it's the fight to sack people who don't watch to the end of a youtube video?

This new focus on racialising everything, of looking first at a person's skin colour before any of their character qualities, might call itself 'anti-racism' but I think it is the very opposite of what it claims. Whereas I believe I'm an anti-racist because I believe in the absolute moral, legal, social and spiritual equality of all.

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 13:19

I know that's not true, as I come from a very diverse background, lots of black people in my immediate and close family.

House!

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 13:20

Being serious, Queen, people are calling out racism and you are spending an inordinate amount of time, effort and words shouting them down.

People are entitled to draw inferences.

queenofknives · 28/08/2020 13:20

@thedancingbear

I know that's not true, as I come from a very diverse background, lots of black people in my immediate and close family.

House!

But it's true.

What have you got to say about the rest of my post?

thedancingbear · 28/08/2020 13:21

I'm not interested in engaging with you. You've made it clear enough where you stand.