Racism allegation at work

[Ticklemelmo]

Without outing I know someone that made a genuine mistake at the beginning of the year by putting something unintentionally racist in a work social media group, someone of colour in the group said it wasn't appropriate, and the person I know apologised directly straight away because they didn't realise.
Months later and a week into the BLM coming out they've come back and accused that person and several others of racism in the work place.

I can't speak for the others impacted by the racist allegations, but this person is now going through a disciplinary with a potential of dismissal?

Aibu to think that this is completely unfair? Anyone work in HR who has dealt with this and can give some expection of outcome.

I think unfair because they'd apologised, the offended person didn't even respond to the apology so the accused couldn't have done anything else and assumed it was all dealt with.

This will be the issue. Your friend may have apologised but they didn't follow that up when the apology was not responded to and made the huge assumption that all was fine and dandy.

Moved into an investigation should read, moved into a disciplinary....

I meant issue of the complaint, not the alleged racism itself.

I feel for your colleague. It was a mistake, happened outside work, was noted and resolved at the time. The worry and fear of being accused of racism at work over this non-incident must be hard to deal with. My advice to them would be to stay strong in their self-knowledge. (From what you've said) they aren't racist, they know they're not racist, they shouldn't feel ashamed or guilty over other people's excessive zealotry.

I was listening to an interview earlier today with Abigail Shrier, who is a Jewish woman. She said that she knows Holocaust survivors who complain less than people do these days about 'microaggressions'. She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it. There are bigger things to focus on. I agree. People need to let these kinds of things go - the only thing that's achieved by pursuing these kinds of actions against innocent people is to create more division and potential backlash.

I think drinking the kool aid is an expression from the jonestown tradegy rather than racism

If a person shares something racist on social media to their work colleagues, it is entirely fair and appropriate that HR investigate, when a BAME member if staff complains about receiving it.

I'm struggling to see why you find that difficult to understand, OP.

Well he's definitely guilty of not watching a video in full but I don't think he deserves to lose his job for that, no.

I would also say that there is a divide between us and the US which some people are now confusing.

I would agree with that. The colleague who pulled me up on my mistake was from the US.

So now, as per the last two threads, we have a whole pile of anecdotes along the lines of:

'A BAME person I know played the race card for no reason whatsoever. We're going to have to get used to more and more of this shit now, thanks to BLM'

slow handclap

Well played OP. How depressing.

@Trixie18

I work in HR, on the basis of what you've said it's entirely correct that the company should investigate. An investigation into a complaint, then a disciplinary hearing are two separate processes, you must complete the investigation before you proceed to disciplinary action. I think actually going through a disciplinary process based on what you've said is harsh, I would have expected the investigation to show it was a genuine error and an apology was made and accepted at the time so no further action. I'd probably recommend some form of mediation and training (probably focused more on correct use of social media in the workplace rather than diversity training if it's been accepted as a genuine error). The fact they have done an investigation and then seem to have moved into an investigation would be unfair if what you've described is correct, it makes me think that the investigation produced other evidence you may not be aware of. This is very common in these types of matters, it's all (rightly) kept confidential so may appear unfair to those outside the investigation. How do you feel about your HR team usually? Do you feel they do a decent job? If so trust them, trust me in this job you don't uphold such awful allegations that could take away someone's livelihood without good reason.

Ok last message from me. Just to say thank you for the detailed message and also actually being one of the few to answer my question.

There shouldn't be any other evidence so this is it. I do have trust they are fair. I've tried to be reassuring to the accused that they are just following procedure but I do think going to disciplinary with potential dismissal seems very harsh and unfair.

Anyway I'm done now. Thankyou.

I do have trust they are fair. I've tried to be reassuring to the accused that they are just following procedure but I do think going to disciplinary with potential dismissal seems very harsh and unfair.

How about posting some stuff about how BAME people are treated harshly and unfairly in the workplace every day, OP, instead of playing the world's smallest violin for your mate who posts racist videos on FB?

How do you re educate someone who did not realise that the racist content was there other than to say check the whole video before posting.

If the scenario is as described ( we rely on OP for this) and the mistake has been corrected and apologised for - a full disciplinary and the sack seems to be a little over the top.

@queenofknives

I feel for your colleague. It was a mistake, happened outside work, was noted and resolved at the time. The worry and fear of being accused of racism at work over this non-incident must be hard to deal with. My advice to them would be to stay strong in their self-knowledge. (From what you've said) they aren't racist, they know they're not racist, they shouldn't feel ashamed or guilty over other people's excessive zealotry.

I was listening to an interview earlier today with Abigail Shrier, who is a Jewish woman. She said that she knows Holocaust survivors who complain less than people do these days about 'microaggressions'. She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it. There are bigger things to focus on. I agree. People need to let these kinds of things go - the only thing that's achieved by pursuing these kinds of actions against innocent people is to create more division and potential backlash.

Good post. Strangely enough I was listening to her today as well, her book "Irreversible Damage" on Audible - she narrates it herself - about the huge leap in transitioning in young girls and women. It's great and hugely informative. I recommend.

I was listening to an interview earlier today with Abigail Shrier, who is a Jewish woman. She said that she knows Holocaust survivors who complain less than people do these days about 'microaggressions'. She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it.

Umm.. that’s not what microagressions are about though. They are small yes, but they are repeated things that happen on a consistent basis. Also, saying that people complain too much about these things when they are still happening is dismissive.

Can you not tell us the phrase Mariel?

I disagree with tipping point being racist as well. Sociologists introduced that phrase to refer to racism after borrowing it from physics. That shouldn’t mean we can’t use it to refer to other topics.

When I lived in the US I had a bit of an altercation with a man in the laundry room. I told him to “Keep your hair on!” He went mad and I beat a hasty retreat. Upon telling my flat mate she said there was no such expression in the US and he must have felt I was commenting on his hair loss...

Good job this wasn’t in a workplace or I might have been accused of making a personal insult...

She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it.

Good idea. This works really well with viruses too, I find.

For the hard of thinking - the analogy doesn't stand up.

@queenofknives

I feel for your colleague. It was a mistake, happened outside work, was noted and resolved at the time. The worry and fear of being accused of racism at work over this non-incident must be hard to deal with. My advice to them would be to stay strong in their self-knowledge. (From what you've said) they aren't racist, they know they're not racist, they shouldn't feel ashamed or guilty over other people's excessive zealotry.

I was listening to an interview earlier today with Abigail Shrier, who is a Jewish woman. She said that she knows Holocaust survivors who complain less than people do these days about 'microaggressions'. She suggested that if you have to get a microscope out to see an 'aggression' then maybe it would be better to just ignore it. There are bigger things to focus on. I agree. People need to let these kinds of things go - the only thing that's achieved by pursuing these kinds of actions against innocent people is to create more division and potential backlash.

So you know the person in question do you queen? how can you say he is not racist? It is all right for you to say what you say here as you are not having to endure racism on a daily basis. When you do, please come back and tell us all how easy it is to ignore it.

I'm struggling to understand how you put something unintentionally racist in any format.

Quite easily I would imagine with the hyper-sensitivity to the slightest word considered to be 'inappropriate' but only allowed by some sections. There are many things that I find 'offensive' but if I state it I am wrong!

This isn't about the whole issue, I'm talking about this sole incident

It IS about the whole issue though isn’t it, if this is in a line up of things that this person has had to accept/laugh off. How many times do you think someone should be punched before they are allowed to react? And when they do react, do you think 1 person should be allowed off as the punch wasn’t so hard?

Work is taking the right approach by investigating it and I think as a minimum, this person who sent the video needs to understand that whilst they didn’t know there was the bit at the end, they did share the video and it was down to them to watch till the end before sending it on a work group WhatsApp and they need to be trained on social media and the risks of sharing things online (or in a text). They may not be racist but this doesn’t mitigate that they did share something that is racist.

If your friend is used as a scape goat for all the racism then this isn’t fair if the rest go unpunished but as we are not part of the investigation, the WhatsApp group or know what the other person has had to put up with through work then we can’t really give an answer on if a dismissal is fair

Good job this wasn’t in a workplace or I might have been accused of making a personal insult...

I tend to think that if you're going to start having 'altercations' (your word) in the workplace, you need to be very careful about the words you use. 'Keep your hair on' may well be considered a snide dig at a bald person in the UK, even though we recognise the expression.

Also, saying that people complain too much about these things when they are still happening is dismissive

I am dismissive of this sort of thing. I really don't think it's worth focusing on the 'micro' when there's plenty of 'macro' to look at. I don't say it's not real that people make assumptions etc but I think that often people interpret perfectly ordinary interactions as 'microaggressions' when they're nothing of the sort. If someone accidentally posts a video without knowing there's a racist slur shouted at the end of it, that's not 'aggression' - that's a mistake. If someone turns their back on me in a shop, should I assume they hate me for a personal characteristic, or maybe they just didn't notice me? If a mechanic speaks to my male friend instead of me, maybe it's not because they hate me or think I can't drive or know anything about cars - maybe they made a mistake and I can say, it's my car, can you explain it to me instead. I'd give them a chance to do that before getting in a state about it.

So yeah, you're right. I am dismissive of it. I think it's a huge waste of time and it's shaping how we see each other in very negative ways.

Racism is like cockroaches, for one you can see there are 30 you didn’t.

You can be a victim of constant racist micro aggressions while those who had never been subject to racism minimise as banter or not intentional, but the damage is the same.

People who have been victim of racism tend to let go stupid one off comments, the fact this is being investigated makes me think there is far more that had not.

Incidentally, one of my former colleagues is currently being investigated for posting something racist in social media. He is well liked and hardworking but I remember him having a laugh with someone in the office, who is more openly racist the fun subject of how you can be verbally racist without being called for it.

Sad your colleague is stressed about this but then, I have met many racists in my life and not a single one would see themselves as racist even if they are saying nasty belittling stuff to Or of minorities every single day.

I thought drinking the kool aid was a reference about cults- they offered poisoned kool aid to kill lots of followers to avoid law enforcement.