If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

Employees that are saying they don't like the commute so don't want to go into the office - well they made that choice for their job before coronavirus. I like the fact I don't have to drive 40 minutes each way at the moment, but if/when we go back to the office I just need to suck it up as when I took the job that was what I had to do.

I think if productivity really is down then yes they probably need to go back in....however I think a lot of offices will struggle to be Covod secure so need to be very very careful about pushing people back in without making sure they are 100% following the guidelines as they could be in a lot of hot water if they've pressured workers back into an unsecure environment and there's an outbreak.

I have my own office which I hated pre covid but it's Covid secure many other teams share smaller ’cosy’ offices within our building though so I'm not sure how we could make them Covid secure.

I reset being treated like a charity though if we're all supposed to go in so we can buy a latte every day they can get knotted. My family’s health and wellbeing is my priority not coffee shop owners bottom lines. I only get 30 mins for lunch and work just on the fringes of the city centre so there just isn't enough time to get anything get back and eat it anyway!!

@Bewareoftheblob

Thanks for the comments everyone. I know that bro is BU and he hasn't got a leg to stand on. He knows that too I think, but he's got used to a more comfortable life!

My AIBU was more around the company's stance in terms of the threat of moving jobs overseas and the need to support other jobs. Some really interesting comments on those elements too.

I think the company were being slightly obnoxious with the 'outsourcing to India' comment, but I wouldn't be as complacent as some posters here. Everyone talks about call centre work, where it's neccessary to be familiar with regional accents and understand the subtleties of the language, but plenty of other sorts of work could and likely will be outsourced to cheaper economies.

As for supporting Costa or Cafe Nero, yeah that is silly. I feel sorry for the employees who are likely to lose their jobs and find it difficult to get another one, but nobody is obliged to keep other people in work.

All that said, I'm not convinced that the shift to WFH is going to be as widespread or as long-term as some believe. But I guess only time will tell.

It’s a fair point. If his job can effectively be done remotely then it could be done in another country for no doubt lower costs. It’s something that everyone in a rich, western country should think hard about.

My DP had two weeks WFH and then was one of the first people back in the office. I don’t think it’s a great coincidence that this has been rewarded monetarily whereas other people I know have had to accept pay cuts recently.

@FluffyKittensinabasket

GreyGardens88 - no matter how “hard working or dynamic” a person is, an employer would have no qualms about making them redundant.

lol - I know that (I was made redundant in July), but that's not a helpful attitude

Completely agree with your point about businesses adapting @LondonJax businesses have always has to adapt to changing markets, commercial conditions and customer preferences I find it so odd that now they suddenly don't want to do that - even when the infrastructure is there, in the case of deliveries for instance. We’re now being told we as customers have to adapt to what they want. Very odd.

"He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home."

So there could be no job to go back to?

If his house isn't set up then he surely needs to be in the office?

No it's not it's bollocks @justanotherneighinparadise

I think he needs to get himself back to work. Just because he prefers home working is absolutely no excuse - he is employed to be in the office and they are perfectly entitled to insist he return. If he feels hard done by, then he should look for a different job.

(sorry by I have been in office the whole time and I am tired of the people whinging about having to go back to normal life!)

Clearly your brother and his colleagues have been pissing about with their families, enjoying the warm weather and generally having fun, when they should have been working. The company’s productivity has paid the price (and all the luckless consumers...us...getting crap customer service) , and now they’re trying to put the wind up them and show them that they’ve got to get back to work or they’ll lose their jobs.
Your brother needs to stop moaning and start working!

I find these attitudes so annoying. As someone who has worked (not at home) throughout, it’s really irritating hearing people whining about having to go back to work. Life isn’t all about baking banana bread and crocheting bloody rainbows.

When a staff member puts in a flexible working request to be allowed to wfh (which he could still do), they have to demonstrate that the business will not be negatively affected as a result. Your brother has had an excellent to opportunity to prove this but, for whatever reason, has failed to do so.

I expect the India comment was a frustrated line manager rather than an offical company position but it is something reluctant returners need to be aware of. If not India, then cheaper areas of the UK or EU nationals returning home and taking the jobs with them.

@Mintychoc1

I find these attitudes so annoying. As someone who has worked (not at home) throughout, it’s really irritating hearing people whining about having to go back to work. Life isn’t all about baking banana bread and crocheting bloody rainbows.

Quite.

Also, while you always hear people insist that their 'productivity' (however that be defined) is 'way up' when WFH, that is often just their own subjective impression. Ultimately, it's up to the employers to decide if your 'productivity' really is just as good. If it is not, they are well within their rights to ask you to return to the office.

I run an office where the staff have been working from home 4 days a week and each coming in one day. There are 3 of us who need to be in the office every day. Those working from home think it is great and want to carry on. Those of us here in the office have had to do work we don't normally have to do, and the easy flow of conversation with customers
which is really important is impaired. It has reached the point now where the office based staff are very unhappy about the ones who are working from home and now the schools are back I'll be asking everyone to come in again, plenty of space for full social distancing here. If you feel you are benefiting from being with your wife and child by working from home I don't think you are really working very hard.

My parents" neighbour is currently wfh from his house in Spain. If Spain, why not Poland or Latvia?

This thread is shocking. I bet loads of people think like OP.

Productivity is lower, but Dh would prefer not to commute and be at home with dc, whilst not having a desk. Not wanting to go back to the office?
So how do you think the employer sees this. It's all about the employees, completely entitled. If Dh wishes he can look for a new job. Good luck. My MD had had 25 people ringing, cv's etc, begging for work because they've been made redundant. The whole thread, this attitude, beggars belief.

I worked in outsourcing for years and for a small company to outsource to India doesn't save much money at all. It's cost saving for larger companies, but the complexity of the contractual arrangements and general risk make it too difficult for smaller companies. I think it's an empty threat.

However, it doesn't surprise me that an employer would say that, as it has been the line employed by no other than Boris Johnson yesterday. So if Boris endorses it, it's fine. And highly predictable if I'm honest. Part of the complete incompetence of the government. Sorry for DM link www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8672917/Boris-Johnson-launch-major-campaign-reassuring-workplace-safe-place.html

My hubby was told to recruit over seas a few months ago as "everyone is now working from home, it seems to be working, so why not pay someone else cheaper" His reaction was no. Instead he gave two people over here a 50k salary each. Obviously would've been a lot less, maybe even 2 for the price of one but he didn't want to do that.

Your brother needs to go back to the office. Not everyone's manager is like my husband and any company could out source the work cheaper now.

Conversely I know a lot of people ( mostly women ) in professional jobs ( mostly solicitors and accountants ) who have used lockdown to prove to their employers that they can be very effective working from home. So they have been told they can keep doing so if they want until early next year, when it will be reviewed.

Of course they all have the space at home , good IT skills and childcare now back, so very different from the start of lockdown.

The India comment is obnoxious but a red herring imho. The issue here is that productivity is down, so naturally his employers want them back in.

If productivity had remained steady I'd be saying the employer was BU, though, especially in threatening to replace people with a cheaper outsourcing solution (which strikes me as an empty threat, as I wouldn't have thought they could legally do it). The threats some employers bandy around these days make me really angry.

If your brother likes all his current benefits he needs to start his own business. The company aren’t unreasonable at all I’m asking him back. He sounds quite entitled.

There is an interwoven web of dependency across the whole of the economy.
So no-one currently cares about the coffee shop workers, suit tailors who’s main business is London’s city business men, Uber drivers ferrying business people to meetings, sandwich caterers, newspaper stands, etc etc who are losing business and jobs left right and centre. But in a few months these jobless many will not be buying insurance or buying new houses and getting mortgages, won’t be investing money in pensions or shares or isa’s then all those bankers and lawyers will have much less work to do and there will be redundancies aplenty, wonder if they will be pushing for everyone to go back to offices then!’!?!